catamarano excess 12

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Excess 12 Review

In this review, we will answer the questions why the Excess 12 catamaran became the Boat of the Year 2020, why Beneteau created a competitor to its Lagoon, does the 12th one really look like the Lagoon 40 , how many Excess 12 layouts will the topRik marketplace can offer if you decide to buy this cat.

• FEATURES OF EXCESS 12
• VIRTUAL TOUR
• MAX. SPEED EXCESS 12

In the Cockpit

On the deck and the bow, in the saloon and the cabins.

• ADVANTAGES OF EXCESS 12
• REVIEWS OF EXCESS 12 FROM PROFESSIONALS
• VIDEO REVIEWS OF EXCESS 12
• PRICE CALCULATOR

As usual, we draw our conclusions by seeing it with our own eyes and steering with our skipper's hands. In confirmation (or contradiction), we present the opinions of the best marine journalists, including those who were on the jury that tested the catamaran for the title of the Best Boat of the Year.

Catamaran Excess 12 opened a line of new models from the French group Beneteau. Brand Excess Catamarans goes under the motto “Be immoderate”, and in many ways corresponds to it, especially considering that we are talking about a cat that is little less than 12 meters long and 6.7 meters wide. The team of naval architects and designers from VPLP design really didn't hold back when they reduced the weight of the Excess 12 by almost a ton compared to the Lagoon 40, which was taken as a basis, and which dimensions are identical to the 12th.

The same vacuum infusion technology and balsa core sandwiches were used to manufacture the structures. Using these methods, the deck and hull above the waterline were made. But even though the deck that is glued on top is completely identical to the Lagoon 40, the shape of the side floats is different – they have two more voluminous chines.

This is what allowed the designers to take advantage of this increased space and come up with a completely new interior design concept. When VPLP was working on lightening the catamaran, it was the designers who made a big contribution by redesigning the interior trim.

But the three-section design, on the principle of which the Excess 12 is built, was transferred from the Lagoon 40 - this is how the bridge is made, as well as deck and hull below the waterline.

That is, with the same dimensions as the Lagoon 40, the first Excess catamaran weighs much less and can offer its passengers more space to live on board. Read about the organization of this space, the change in seaworthiness and the control features of the Excess 12 below.

Features of Excess 12

• Brand: Excess
• Hull type: Catamaran
• Overall length, m: 11.8
• Width, m: 6.73
• Draft, m: 1.35
• Displacement, t: 10.1
• Air draft, m: 18.27
• Water tanks, l: 300
• Exterior design (Architect): VPLP design
• CE Certification: A: 10 - B: 12 - C: 16 - D: 20
• Mainsail type: Square top
• Jib type: Self-tacking
• Mainsail area, m²: 50
• Jib area, m²: 32
• Code 0 area, m²: 67
• Engines, hp: 2x29 / 2x45
• Fuel tanks, l: 2 x 200

Virtual tour

Max. speed excess 12.

The maximum speed of the Excess 12 yacht depends on several factors, such as: wind conditions, sea state, and sail configuration. However, the manufacturer states that the Excess 12 has a maximum speed of approximately 17 knots (19.6 mph or 31.5 km/h) under ideal conditions.

Review Excess 12 by TopRik Team

“Somehow I don’t think that this is a copy of Lagoon 40, as they call it,” our skipper said thoughtfully, when the topRik team (not the full crew) approached the pier. As we got closer and looked at the Excess 12 from the transom, we realized what he was talking about.

It was enough to see two helms spaced along the sides to understand that this boat is far from a complete copy of the Lagoon 40.

Therefore, we decided throughout the test, if possible, to draw parallels with this distinguished yacht in order to find out how the first model of the Excess brand differs from it with its “Be immoderate” motto. Apparently, an additional helm was added in accordance with this message.

But let's get back to the transom. We must admit that we are already familiar with these ladders with comfortable steps spaced along the sides, the lower of which is wide enough to serve as a swim platform. A special ladder is used to descend into the water and climb out.

The middle part of the transom is given over to a large locker for life rafts, there are also davits on which an inflatable motor boat is attached. Davits are designed to hold a boat (or 1-2 local jet ski) weighing up to 150 kg.

Another common feature of the two compared catamarans is the lack of a flybridge, which is quite understandable for a vessel of this size.

We agreed that the float contours have been changed, and in the Excess 12 they are more ribbed and significantly expanded towards the bow, which gives hope for higher ceilings and more roomy spaces below deck. The shape of the side windows has been changed, but their number has remained the same, which promises enough natural light in the cabins.

But let's not get ahead of ourselves, especially since our skipper has already run up the ladder to the stern of the yacht. Keep up!

While the team leader inspects the control posts, we place ourselves around the table in the cockpit. It has already been mentioned that we went to the exhibition with just half of our crewmen, so we could only approximate the accommodation characteristics of the cockpit. The four of us were comfortably seated at the table, and a couple more people could sit with us. Opposite the table and along the transom there are two more large sofas, so that only at the stern can all the 10 people declared by the manufacturer fit all at once – possibly, even more than that. To quench their thirst, there is a spacious freezer for cooling drinks and ice cream.

And let's not forget that excellent seats for two people are provided in front of the helms. With sorrow and some surprise, we learn that these helmsman seats are actually an additional optional purchase.

This sorrow was sweetened by the excellent organization of the helm station as a whole. Immediately behind the helm there is a panel with a compass , chart plotter , various indicators; to the right of the helmsman behind the starboard helm there is a throttle stick and another set of the indicators necessary to control the operation of yacht equipment.

An identical helm station is also on the port side (pictured above), with the exception of some nuances, for example, the absence of a chartplotter.

In the two photos above and in the photo below, you can see how conveniently the winches are located, how well the sheets and halyards are wound, how they can be hidden in special bags so that they do not get under the feet of the helmsmen and do not create dangerous obstacles for the passage of passengers. Also check out the roof rails that provide safety while walking on the side decks of the Excess 12.

Both helms offer excellent views of the entire catamaran. Moreover, the bow of the opposite float is visible through the cockpit door and large untinted saloon windows. At the same time, the helmsman has a full view of the deck along his side, the sails and, of course, the entire stern.

From the two photos below, you can appreciate how well all parts of the catamaran are viewed from the left and right helm stations.

Notice that the right post is the main one? And not only because there are more cables that control the sails and rigging. Devices on the panel on the left side - an option.

Well, it is understandable, although disappointing, that the cockpit roof does not extend to the helm stations, otherwise the helmsman will not be able to see the sails. In return, the helmsmen will save themselves from the sun and rain with the help of a bimini . By the way, the roof over the cockpit can be supplied with an opening part, as in the Lagoon , then a full view of the sails opens up.

Speaking of sails... Excess 12 has two versions - Standard and Pulse. The Pulse version differs from the Standard in having additional sails of 5 m² and a mast that is almost 92 cm higher. The mast extending far aft is characteristic of both versions. This makes it easier to manage the mainsail when sailing alone or in pairs, as it allows you to reduce the area of the mainsail. A self-aligning boom and a square top mainsail are also featured in both versions.

For Pulse versions are provided with gray tri-radial laminate Incidence sails. Code Zero in this version is almost 8 m² more than in the Standard version.

We found out in practice that this is a universal sailing plan, with which the Excess 12 catamaran is perfectly controlled even by one experienced skipper, and for a pair of helmsmen it is not a problem at all.

And now let's go along the deck to the bow of Excess 12. At first glance, this is an extensive sunbathing area with soft mattresses and sunbeds, hanging nets and even a ladder to the roof. But this frivolous spectacle is a disguise for serious engineering developments.

Therefore, if circumstances permit, remind your friends, children or charter passengers that the nets are not a trampoline and are not strung here for entertainment at all. Firstly, they reduce the weight of the boat, secondly, they help to overcome wind resistance, and thirdly, they do not allow the catamaran to burrow into the wave and bounce with each shaft.

And the ladder to the roof is not so much to make it easier for those who want to sunbathe, but to make it easier to work with sails. We saw this skeptical grin on the faces of entrepreneurs from the charter business, imagining how they explain all this to passengers. Well, use your imagination...

The anchor chain is recessed in the channel and fed to a vertical electric anchor winch. The anchor is extended to a safe distance from the hull, which eliminates damage when it is raised and lowered, as well as during pitching.

Fans of physical activity, speed under sail and maneuvering can order a bowsprit. A removable bowsprit allows you to shift the center of sail and increase the area of the rig.

On the foredeck there are hatches into the bow compartments, which can be used as places for storing fenders, water toys, equipment for diving, hunting, fishing, etc.

It's time to go down to the cabins, and the way there runs through the saloon. A sliding door and sliding windows connect the cockpit and saloon spaces. And one of the tables in the galley, which is located under the window, can be turned into a bar counter or can be used for distribution of hot meals from the saloon to the cockpit.

After looking around in the cabin, we decided that this boat could have a grand party somewhere in the marina, inviting passengers from neighboring yachts to visit, if, of course, they are not much larger than the Excess 12. See for yourself and figure out how many people will fit on the stern.

In the corner you see another control post - the skipper's table, which is equipped with a chartplotter and indicators that show the status of the equipment and other parameters that the skipper has to constantly monitor. There is a comfortable seat in front of the table. On the same side there is a full-fledged galley.

Here in the photo above you can clearly see that one of the surfaces of the L-shaped galley can serve as a bar or serving dishes, where you do not have to stand in line.

Large windows around the entire perimeter let in maximum natural light, and opening portholes and a large cockpit door provide maximum fresh air. Even passengers in the cabin have access to a 360-degree view and healing sea air.

You can see the entrance to the cabins in the previous photos. The manufacturer offers a choice of several versions of the configuration of the cabins. The layouts below show the location of the cabins in the catamaran hulls in different versions of their equipment.

In the case of 3 cabins, the master cabin occupies the entire float. This space is divided into several zones - a conditional bedroom, a conditional office or living room and a bathroom. In the sleeping area there is a large island double bed, a shelf and a bedside table, in the living room there is a table that can be used for work, a wardrobe, a pouffe for sitting.

The dressing room is quite large for a catamaran, not even up to 12 meters. In addition to a separate shower, washbasin and toilet, there are storage lockers. All this is illuminated and ventilated through skylights and side windows.

The 4-cabin version is two double cabins in each hull with two bathrooms - one for each hull, or the same cabins, but each with a separate toilet.

It should be noted that we tested a catamaran with 3 cabins, and it seemed to us that even the shared bathroom for two cabins was cramped. But for charter flights, where complete strangers can meet, perhaps even tighter, but separate places of hygiene are justified.

Advantages of Excess 12

As usual, let's start with a disadvantage. For our experts, this was the lack of storage space. Even in the galley, where there are usually a lot of lockers, they turned out to be deplorably few. Although if there is a desire, the required number of lockers can be added. The main thing is not to get carried away so that the added storage spaces and their contents do not cancel out all the work of engineers to reduce the weight of the vessel.

The advantages of the Excess 12 sailing catamaran topRik team include:

• Safety. The catamaran is stable when maneuvering and big waves. During the manufacturing process, the latest technologies are used. Optimally safe and reliable equipment has been selected that provides full control of the boat.
• Quality. When making the deck and hulls of the boat, innovative materials were used. The interiors use natural fabrics, wood veneer, etc.
• Multivariance. Thanks to the design, safety, quality equipment and sufficient comfort for life at sea, the yacht can be used for family cruises and charter flights, as well as for sailing alone or together with a special other.
• By reducing the weight of the vessel, the seakeeping characteristics of the Excess 12 have been improved, in particular, tacking under sails in strong winds.
• Affordable price of Excess 12 considering the high quality and safety.

Reviews of Excess 12 from Professionals

Here are the ratings given to the catamaran Excess 12 by well-known journalists and yachtsmen Kevin Green and Mark Pillsbury. Mark participated in testing the boat for the title of Best Midsize Cruising Catamaran for 2020. And the very first review belongs to the yachtsman and freelancing writer for yachting magazines, Zuzana Prochazka.

The author of the review goes into detail about the idea of a new range of cats from Beneteau, which is aimed at those who want to feel at one with the boat and are constantly looking for something new in both monohull and multihull yachts. Zuzana believes that Excess 12 has exactly that to offer.

She liked the engine control knobs mounted on both sides of the helms, located at the level of the helmsman's hips so that she could reach them without looking, which is very important when mooring, since you need to control all parts of the vessel, although it is not so wide.

Zuzana doubted the ability to control the opposite bow of the catamaran through the cockpit and saloon windows, until she personally checked and made sure that the visibility was really excellent.

Zuzana tested a convertible catamaran with a manually opened cockpit canopy. On the one hand, as the author of the review noted, this opens up a view of the sails, but on the other hand, problems arise when you need to go to the mainsail bag.

The author noted that she was impressed with the testing at sea, despite the fact that there was a light breeze of only 7-10 knots. At the same time, the team managed to accelerate the cat to 5 knots in a 50-degree apparent wind, and increase it to 5.4 knots with a 75-degree AWA speed.

The reviewer immediately supported the idea of an open and fast catamaran, which does not look like a monster. As an experienced yachtsman, he noted the optional high sail layout, which is able to create some thrills and speed up the movement of huge hulls in lighter airs.

Kevin also noted the lack of a soft top cockpit roof - not enough room to reach the end of the boom, although the boat he was testing had a fiberglass roof.

He liked the reaction of the paddle rudders to the helms, as well as the organization of the control of the sails. Kevin concluded that this is a functional boat that does not require a large crew to operate.

The cat the team tested was equipped with a code 0 bowsprit, which, as the author noted with characteristic irony, is an excellent choice for those "who prefer the sound of rushing waves to the chugging of diesels in light winds."

As a result of testing, which Mark Pillsbury attended, Excess 12 received the title of Best Midsize Cruising Catamaran for 2020. This, as noted by the reviewer, was facilitated by “great weather”. It should be noted that the tests were going to be postponed due to the forecast, which predicted a storm, and subsequently the forecast came true. How assures Mark, "did we have one heck of a ride before gusts topped 40 knots".

He noted the enhanced sail plan of the Excess 12 compared to the Lagoon 40, which is provided by the Pulse version. It was this version that was installed on the tested boat.

The jury noted that it was easy to manage the catamaran even in severe pre-storm conditions. After setting the sails, excellent tacking was achieved with just a turn of the helm.

The boat raced at over 8 knots with winds ranging from 25 to 30 knots, while steering was very responsive.

Summing up the review, the author recalled a popular phrase from his college days "Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess". That's exactly what he did when he rode the Excess 12 on a very windy day, says Mark Pillsbury.

Video Reviews of Excess 12

If a picture is worth one thousand words, then a video is absolutely invaluable.

Let’s start with a big, in-depth, 30-minute review by BoatLife – almost all of your questions will be answered after watching this:

Interior overview with not commentary with pleasant music:

Another detailed review, this time by Sailing Ruby Rose:

NautiStyles surprised us with a thorough walkthrough of Excess 12 – lots of helpful information:

And if you still have doubts, here’s some drone footage of the yacht at the sea:

Thorough testing of the boat by various groups, as we were able to verify, shows that the Excess 12 catamaran has excellent seakeeping characteristics both under engines and under sails. The cat is maneuverable and easy to handle: having two helms, it can easily be steered by one experienced skipper.

Excessive luxury is not provided for on board, but comfort for a long stay on board is provided at an excellent level.

There are various options for completing cabins - for a couple, a family or a large company.

The Excess 12 is highly stable, reliable, allows up to 10 people to cruise safely, although the number of passengers, crew and guests can reach up to 20 people in the parking lot or in protected waters.

Based on this, we can conclude that the Excess 12 catamaran is perfect for:

• yachtsmen who do not like unnecessary restrictions in comfort, but want to feel the power of sails and wind in their hair;
• sailors who prefer solitude in the open sea;
• caring parents who want to spend a lot of time with their children in natural conditions, but in safety and without asceticism;
• couples who want to stay together in the middle of the ocean;
• those who have many friends and do not want to part with them even on a cruise;
• those who wish to buy their own fast and comfortable first catamaran at a bargain price.

Of course, Excess 12 is ideal for commercial use. It is quite comfortable and spacious for passengers of a charter.

And one more purpose of this small but cozy catamaran is a prestigious purchase for organizing corporate sea trips.

Price calculator

Where to buy excess 12 at a bargain price.

If, after reading the material, you have a question where to buy Excess 12 at a bargain price, we have good news for you: you have already solved this problem for yourself by visiting our marketplace. We will do the rest ourselves:

• find out in detail in which configuration you want to see your Excess 12;
• we will negotiate with the manufacturer or dealers to select Excess 12 at a favorable price;
• we will control the fulfillment of your requirements for the configuration of the cat;
• we will issue all necessary documents, including customs;
• we will deliver the yacht to the destination you specify;
• we will provide all accessories and equipment that are not included in the standard and optional equipment: fenders , dishes, bed and table linen, rugs, towels, watermaker , tools, etc.

All consultations will be given free of charge by our employees by phone, through e-mail or through feedback on the website. Our specialists are practicing yachtsmen who are well aware of the features of single-hull and multi-hull sailing and motor yachts. They will not allow you to impose unnecessary equipment on you, but they will accurately indicate what you cannot do without at the sea.

Beginning yachtsmen are invited to take IYT Yacht Training Course "International Bareboat Skipper" in our school SimpleSail, which is an official partner of IYT Worldwide. Bareboat Skipper qualification received at our school allows you to automatically receive International Certificate of Competency (ICC).

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Sailboat specifications

• Last update: 16th April 2020

Excess 12's main features

• 2020: Cruising World - Boat of the Year: Midsize Cruising Catamaran
• 2020: SAIL magazine - Best Cruising Multihull Under 40ft
• 2020: Multihull of the Year: Under 40 feet

Excess 12's main dimensions

Excess 12's rig and sails, excess 12's performances, excess 12's auxiliary engine, excess 12's accommodations and layout, excess 12's fore cabin, excess 12's aft cabin.

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Excess 12: Best Midsize Cruising Catamaran

• By Herb McCormick
• Updated: December 9, 2019

Excess. Or does it? That was the primary question to be answered when determining the top boat among this trio of nominees in the Midsize Cruising Catamaran division. The Excess 12 was the first highly anticipated model to debut in the United States from a new brand recently created by the French boatbuilding giant Groupe Beneteau. It was up against stiff competition from a pair of long-established, well-entrenched French cat builders: Fountaine Pajot, with its new Elba 45, and Lagoon Catamarans—also part of the Groupe Beneteau colossus—with a fresh 46-footer. Who would emerge victorious in this rousing cat fight?

Judge Ed Sherman was impressed with the Elba 45 right from the get-go. “During our motoring test, it was immediately evident that this was one of the quietest boats in the fleet,” he said. “At 70 decibels in cruising mode, that was extremely low. And even when we kicked it up to high speed, at 2,800 rpm, it was still recording just 72 dB in the main cabin area while doing 9.2 knots, which is excellent. And the entire boat—the ­deckhouse, the interior layout—the way it was ­s­­tructurally engineered, was solid. It indicated to me that this was a strong boat that’s going to last for a while.”

As it turned out, the judges weren’t finished grading or ­discussing the Elba 45.

The panelists then turned their attention to the two Groupe Beneteau contenders, which perhaps significantly, were sea-trialed in some of the most extreme conditions in the long history of Boat of the Year .

The Lagoon 46 is laid out with the steering station and sail controls situated well aloft in a raised, flybridge-type configuration, which for judge Ralph Naranjo, took a little getting used to. “If you’re down below and the boat’s on ­autopilot, and something ­happens where you need to blow the traveler because a thunderstorm’s coming, you’re going to have to hurry,” he said. But Naranjo’s opinion of the boat also changed for the better during the stiff sail tests, which the 46 handled with aplomb. “I came away liking the boat more after sailing and motoring it than I did during the dockside inspections,” Naranjo said. “Under power, she was lovely to maneuver. Even in the big breeze, you could hold station using ­forward and reverse.”

Of course, both the Lagoon and the Fountaine Pajot will be used both by private owners and in charter fleets, and needs to satisfy the requirements of each. Whereas the judges considered the 38-foot-6-inch Excess 12 a purer sailboat, one that could be operated by a couple and serve as a fine, fast cruiser, which is why they ultimately named it the Best Midsize Cruising Catamaran .

“I like having the sail controls and the main living space on the vessel all on the same level,” Naranjo said. “You have that nice continuity between the main saloon and the cockpit, so the off watch is only a few steps away from the helm and all the action. And I liked the overall workmanship. It really performed in the heavy air. I think she’s a great boat.”

“We gave the Excess 12 a ­structural ­workout, and it did very well. It felt very solid.”

“One of the strongest features is the removable Bimini over the cockpit,” judge Dan Spurr said. “When it’s retracted, you have really good visibility of the sails. When you don’t need that visibility, when it’s raining or you’re motoring, you can pull it back and have some shade and sun protection. The kind of convertible option is nice. On a lot of cats with a fixed hardtop, you can’t see anything and have to go to one side or the other to check sail trim.”

“I really liked her as well,” judge Ed Sherman said. “At one point sailing, we saw 43 knots of apparent wind. And it just remained relatively quiet and in control. So we certainly gave it quite a structural workout, and it just did very well. It felt quite solid. I like the helms aft. I think they’re really onto something here. I was very impressed.”

So, to once again pose the question from the top of this write-up, does nothing succeed like this Excess? Aw, c’mon. You know the answer.

See All Winners:

2020 Boats of the Year

Other Winners:

• Overall Boat of the Year
• Best Performance Cruiser
• Best Midsize Cruiser Under 45 feet
• Best Full-size Cruiser
• Best Full-size Cruiser Over 55 Feet
• Best Midsize Cruising Catamaran
• Best Full-size Multihull
• Best Charter Boat
• Most Innovative
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5 Reasons To Buy An Excess 12 Catamaran [New Boat For Sale]

The xcs 12 is for sale in south florida + california..

The sight of an Excess 12 catamaran at full speed ahead with unique lines, open-air layout, and sporty gray and orange sails is simply seductive. And it’s not just us who think so, it won “Catamaran Of The Year 2020” by Cruising World and was honored with “Multihull of The Year 2020” by Multihulls World Magazine. There’s no denying that the XCS 12 is a breath of fresh air to the sailing world of catamarans.

If you’re looking for your next socially distanced escape, the Excess 12 is the perfect boat to sail around Catalina or the Caribbean. We’re highlighting the top 5 reasons to buy an Excess 12 and how it will exceed your expectations. This one-of-a-kind catamaran is for sale in South Florida and California .

1. Work With A Blank Canvas

While new boats come well equipped with an extensive list of factory options, customizing a new yacht to suit your preference is part of the fun. You can choose among interior wood choices, decor, entertainment, dishware, and storage options. It just depends on how you want to optimize your new boat.

A new Excess 12 is your blank canvas. It comes with options for the layout to accommodate exactly how you’ll use the catamaran. Got a big family? The 4 cabin, 2 head version seamlessly converts the office space into a double berth. A 3 cabin, 2 head layout is perfect for a couple who loves to invite friends onboard for extended sailing trips. The flexibility in working with a blank canvas lets you create your perfect Excess 12 catamaran.

2. Professional Orientation And Support

The Excess 12 is an adventurous purchase, but the beauty of this catamaran is that it’s fun and easy to sail. This catamaran offers plenty of sensations to create a more seaman-like concept that brings you closer to the sea. The XCS 12 has a generous sail plan — a self-tacking jib makes it easy for single-handed sailing, twin helms provide excellent visibility, and electric winches are conveniently placed on either side of the boat.

As a new or veteran boat owner, you’ll receive comprehensive technical and operational training when you purchase a new Excess 12 . Denison will explain how to keep your boat running smoothly from stem to stern. We also include on-the-water instruction with an expert captain to quickly build your confidence and accelerate enjoyment on the water. After your new boat is delivered, Denison’s factory-trained technical team is available to provide assistance when you need it.

3. Trade-In And Trade-Up

Beneteau designed a catamaran that combines performance and comfort. A notable feature on the Excess 12, and the entire Excess range , is the convertible coachroof. There’s no other catamaran designed with an optional retractable sunroof over the cockpit. Pulling the roof forward not only allows ample light to shine over the cockpit, but it also allows the captain to see the mainsail and know what’s going on with the sail trim.

If that sounds more appealing than your current boat’s design, Denison has a no-hassle trade-in program to help you purchase a new boat. We’ll help you receive the highest value for your current yacht towards the price of the new Excess 12. It’s not as complicated as you may think — we’ll handle the nitty-gritty details so you can plan your next cruise around The Bahamas .

4. Easy To Purchase

Denison recently sold an Excess 12 to first-time boat owners in San Diego, California. We helped them navigate the process of buying a new boat and set them up with a five day ASA catamaran course with West Coast Multihulls. While Denison makes buying a boat accessible for everyone, the overall process of buying a new yacht is easier than buying a used yacht. There are no surveys , haulouts, or engine inspections to complicate the process.

On top of that, Denison’s new boat brands come with a 3-year manufacturer’s warranty to ensure peace of mind and reduced maintenance expenses. That includes Excess catamarans . Buying a new boat with warranty protection and local service means you can confidently pay and sail away.

5. Welcome To The Family

Twin helms aft, retractable sunroof, and flexible layout are just a few of the key features that make the XCS 12 stand out among a sea of ordinary catamarans. Beneteau thought of every last detail to ensure that you fully enjoy the experience onboard. When you purchase a new boat through Denison, you become part of our family. As one of the largest new boat dealerships in the United States, we buy in volume and pass the savings along to you. We’re excited to help your family enjoy treasured memories on the water.

Don’t miss the opportunity to own a new Excess 12 catamaran . She is a well-equipped boat, perfect for new or veteran boat owners. The Beneteau Excess 12 catamaran is for sale with Denison Yachting in South Florida and California . Contact Matthew Morrison or Don Margraf to inquire about this yacht and start your next sailing adventure.

Speak To A Excess Catamaran Specialist:

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Excess 12 Details

The Excess 12 was the first catamaran in the Excess line, introduced in 2019. The models now include the 38-foot Excess 12, the 48-foot Excess 15, and the all-new Excess 11. Two other models will eventually join the lineup. 

All Excess models share the design vision of Groupe Beneteau, which is to provide sailors with the nimble and thrilling excitement of sailing like a modern monohull but with the space and accommodations of a cruising catamaran. The Excess Team has succeeded with the Excess line.

With a length of 38 feet, beam of 22’5”, and a draft of 4’3” this mid-sized catamaran is ideal for a couple or family. The standard mast clearance is under 60 feet, so sailors on the East Coast can clear all bridges along the Atlantic Intracoastal Waterway (ICW). 

The Excess 12, as all other models, have two helm stations aft, in each corner of the stern. These positions provide an unobstructed view forward to the bow and beyond, so the person at the helm can sail the boat much like a traditional monohull, with nothing blocking his or her view forward, and with the water’s only inches away. (Much different than traditional catamarans where the helm is positioned on a bulkhead in the cockpit or on the flybridge, far off the water.)

All sheets and halyards lead back to the starboard helm, the primary steering station, and there are large Harken winches to assist in sail management. Thoughtfully, the builder included dedicated bags for the sheets and halyards to keep clutter in the cockpit to a minimum.

One might think the exposed location of these helm stations would be a concern in terms of weather protection, especially compared to bridgedeck helms. While that may be true to some degree, one can fit the small bimini over each helm, and mostly enclose the station with removable Isinglass. 

But the reality is—even on cats with bridgedeck helms—when making a passage or when the rain is coming down in buckets, the crew will most always engage the boat’s autopilot to keep the boat on course, and stand watch in the protected cockpit or saloon.

To improve the feel for the helmsman, the steering uses Dyneema lines to connect the wheels with the rudders. This offers a more direct feeling, and one can feel weather helm coming on and work to balance the boat and sails. Finding the groove is difficult with other steering systems.

The lack of tinting in the saloon windows allows unrestricted view of the entire boat from either helm, which is much safer than wondering how close the other bow is to other boats when heading down a crowded fairway. With the sliding convertible bimini open over the cockpit, the person at either helm can easily see the mainsail and its telltales. This is a sailor’s catamaran for sure.

There are three layouts available: a three-cabin boat with two heads, a four-cabin layout with two heads, and a four-cabin version with four heads, that last being the obvious choice for charter operation. The configurations with two heads are dry heads, meaning each has its own separate shower.

The Excess 12 carried 79 gallons of fresh water, and either 42 or 85 gallons for black water, depending on whether there are two or four heads. Fuel capacity is 106 gallons total, with two rotomolded 53-gallon fuel tanks, for the two Yanmar 3YM30 29hp diesel saildrives.

The Excess follows a contemporary interior theme of Honey Teak plywood and sand-colored wood flooring to keep the interior bright and inviting. The saloon may seem compact, until one slides open the door into the cockpit area, turning the entire space into one open and spacious living area. There is a reason so many cruisers have fallen in love with the living space on a modern catamaran, at anchor and under way.

The saloon includes a nav station, an L-shaped settee, and a galley with a three-burner gas stove and oven, stainless-steel refrigerator and large galley sink. The sliding door disappears when open and one can easily envision how nice this boat will be to live on when moored or at anchor while cruising. A large table in the cockpit is perfect for dining, games, and staying in touch with the world from a tablet or laptop. With the overhead bimini closed, there is lovely protection from the sun and rain. 

The deck plan and rigging on the Excess 12 reflects a performance orientation. The builder has tried hard to keep weight out of the boat, and the deck gear and rigging are clearly designed to make sailing fast, safe, and under control. Low-stretch Dyneema line is used for the halyards, and pre-stretched polyester lines are used for jib sheets and reef lines.

This Excess 12 and her sister ships reflect contemporary thinking at Groupe Beneteau, and future models will take this direction further, based on assessing owner experiences with the current models. Bringing back the joy of sailing, in a modern comfortable catamaran that is well suited for cruising and living aboard, is the essence of the Excess line.

The Excess 12 combines the important elements of performance sailing with accommodations that are all about comfortable cruising and living aboard. Let’s go have some fun.

Excess. Be immoderate.

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2020 XCS Excess 12 | France

Boat Model: XCS Excess 12

Model Year: 2020

Asking Price: 371,211 Euros

Length: 38 ft 6 in

Beam: 22 ft 1 in

Draft: 4 ft 5 in

VESSEL SPECIFICATIONS

Immediately available in charter management & tax program.

Current Use of Boat: New from factory Condition: Ready to Sail

3 Cabin 2 Head Upgrades: Full Electronics Pack Upgraded engines to 45HP Electric Winches

With unique, graceful and seductive lines, let yourself be carried away by her design. The visibility from the helm station, the fine touch of the wheel, the opening bimini roof… everything has been done to allow you to fully live the experience of the Excess 12.

The Excess 12 adopts a marked chine and a pronounced deck sheer, creating unique lines. Her twin helm stations, located aft, offer a maximum of sensations and create a more seamanlike concept that brings us closer to the sea. The light and precise helm and the opening bimini are reminiscent of the pleasures of helming a monohull.

The cockpit of this boat is bathed in light thanks to its opening roof. On the outside there is the usual trampoline between the hulls, great for sunbathing, as well as the large exterior table. The hulls have a large volume with the option of a three double cabin or four double cabin version.

With her completely new lines for the coachroof, a short nacelle and the taller Pulse Line rig, the Excess 12 brings a breath of fresh air to the world of cruising catamarans.

SPECIFICATIONS:

DIMENSIONS Overall length 11.74 m / 38’6’’ Length 11.46 m / 38’ Beam 6.73 m / 22’1’’ Air draft 18.27 m / 59’11’’ Draft 1.35 m / 4’5’’ Light displacement (CE) 10.3 T / 22,712 lbs CE Certifications A: 10 – B: 12 – C: 16 – D: 20

EQUIPMENT Fresh water capacity 300 L / 79 US gal Holding tank capacity 160 L to 320 L / 42 to 85 US gal Fuel capacity 2 x 200 L / 2 x 53 US gal Engines 2 x 29 HP to 2 x 45 HP

SAILS Square-top mainsail 50 m² / 538 sq.ft Self-tacking jib 32 m² / 344 sq.ft Code 0 (option) 67 m² / 721 sq.ft Upwind sail area 82 sq.m. / 882 sq.ft. Upwind sail area PULSE LINE 87 m² / 936 sq. ft.

Contact us for a detailed business plan and pricing for this boat.

charter programs & tax advantages

This catamaran is immediately available for purchase and can be placed in a charter fleet to take advantage of the 2020 tax program before the end of the year! It is the LEAST EXPENSIVE way to own a yacht!

A yacht or boat business is a fairly simple concept and is structured much like any other for profit business. By placing a yacht into a corporation (usually an LLC) and operating it actively for profit, either directly or through a third party management company, the owner is able to generate substantial tax advantages that further offset the cost of ownership. 

For more than 30 years, we have been a part of the catamaran community and created Catamaran Guru™ to encourage and educate all the aspiring sailing out there. We understand the dream of traveling the world by catamaran and created a one-stop-shop to make that dream a reality for you.

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Excess 12 Catamaran

Like all the catamarans of our range, EXCESS 12 is for those who dream of a cruising catamaran that provides real sailing sensations. The view from the helm, the finesse of the sail trimming, the friendliness of the cockpit, the sliding sunroof, allow the whole crew to fully live the experience on board.

Available in 3 & 4 cabin versions (Number of berths 4 to12)

BREATH TAKING DESIGN

EXCESS 12 has an assertive and qualitative personality which breaks with the codes of traditional sailing. Its design embodies both sportsmanship and modernity. EXCESS 12 is a sophisticated, balanced and refined boat with a strong perso­nality: sleek lines, elegant proportions, perfect balance.

EXCESS 12 was designed by the successful and awarded naval architect agency, VPLP design. Since Patrick Le Quément focused on its exterior design, Nauta Design focused on the interior design making sure EXCESS 12 is as beautiful as you could dream of.

INSPIRED By racing for cruising pleasure

Super high aspect ratio rig, Pulse line (a boosted rig to get + 10% SA/DSP), Signature textile lifelines with fluorescent plaits, Dyneema steering cables to improve responsiveness & sensitivity, Titanium coated aluminium stanchions and cleats…everything is there to wake up all your thrilling senses of sailor!

CONTEMPORARY Modern atmosphere

The EXCESS 12 has been designed to provide you with a fresh and contemporary atmosphere on your boat. Light and bright with a refreshing interior, simplicity with the essence of a good design, Cedar & White blend woodwork… Get customised your own catamaran by choosing in between three carefully designed ambiences !

A GATEAWAY To the stars

The EXCESS 12 gives you the unique oppportunity to adapt your boat according to your mood: discreet, outgoing,…trim the sliding sunroof as you feel. The roof vanishes providing a clear view of the sky, a perfect vision of the sails and a fresh breeze at anchor.

AFT DOUBLE steering station

From one steering station to another, the EXCESS 12 is open to an ideal view of the sails, the sea and to the bows. Get thrilling sensations at the wheel in an intimate connection with your boat. Manoeuvring control is at your fingertips!

Specifications

Price: contact us to discuss customizing your boat, contact me about this boat, notify me of a price drop.

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Our clients find this questionnaire will clarify and facilitate your next purchase for an easier, efficient, and less time consuming process.

After you submit the questionnaire we will send you three boat ideas that best fit your inputs for your review.

The questionnaire and the three boat suggestions are at no charge or obligation.

We are committed to a successful, positive experience when purchasing your next used or new boat at the right price and best fit for your intended use and needs.

Sincerely Glenn Walters Managing Partner

Our clients find this questionnaire will clarify and facilitate your next purchase for an easier, efficient, and less time consuming process. After you submit the questionnaire we will send you three boat ideas that best fit your inputs for your review. The questionnaire and the three boat suggestions are at no charge or obligation.

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Announced a little over a year ago now, the new Excess catamaran brand have just presented their first two models, the 12 and the 15. And it’s the former we are unveiling here. A new concept more focused on performance and the pleasure of sailing, but without denying any comfort: does the Excess 12 live up to her promises?

The first two Excess catamarans were presented to the public for the very first time at the Cannes Yachting Festival; it would be fair to say that these two catamarans have been much-awaited! The simple fact that the Bénéteau Group, world leader in yachting, is launching a new multihull brand, this is an event in itself. First, we need to understand their choice: Lagoon occupies almost half of the market, so why try this bet? Precisely because Lagoon can hardly do better, according to marketing experts... hence the idea of offering more performance-oriented catamarans under another brand, designed to attract an audience directly from the monohull and/or younger audience, who are water-sports enthusiasts. Let's be clear from the outset, the Lagoon team has been in charge of the project. And as we will see later, many elements of the Excess 12 have been borrowed from the Lagoon 40. On the other hand, the distribution network is different.

A shorter nacelle and twin helm stations

Moored side by side in Cannes, the Excess 12 and the Lagoon 40 have two clear differences: the new model adopts a shorter nacelle and has twin helm stations - one on each hull. As for everything else, ...

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Technical information

Design & Comfort: The Excess 12 is a standout in the world of modern catamarans, known for its sporty and elegant design. It features a well-thought-out layout that maximizes space and comfort. The design emphasizes natural light with large windows and a panoramic view, enhancing the onboard experience. Its contemporary interior styling combines functionality with aesthetic appeal, making it ideal for both leisure and entertainment.

Performance & Handling: The Excess 12 is applauded for its impressive sailing performance, characterized by its responsiveness and agility. Its twin rudders and well-designed hulls provide excellent maneuverability and stability, making it a suitable choice for the varying conditions of the Croatian coast. The boat offers a good balance between performance and comfort, appealing to both seasoned sailors and those new to catamaran sailing.

Amenities & Features: This catamaran comes equipped with all the necessary amenities for a comfortable stay. The cabins are spacious and well-appointed, ensuring privacy and relaxation. The saloon and galley area are designed for sociability and practical use, perfect for group gatherings. Advanced navigation equipment and comprehensive safety features ensure a secure and enjoyable sailing experience.

Suitability for Croatian Waters: With its blend of performance and comfort, the Excess 12 is well-suited for the diverse sailing environments found in Croatia. Whether navigating through the Adriatic’s serene islands or mooring in quaint coastal towns, this catamaran is capable of handling both short hops and longer voyages with ease.

Overall Experience: Chartering the Excess 12 in Croatia offers a blend of adventure and luxury. It’s a fantastic choice for those seeking to explore the stunning Croatian coastline and islands, providing a perfect mix of exhilarating sailing and comfortable living.

Deck & Cockpit equipment : Anchor windlass electric , Main anchor-chain , Fenders , Hand bilge pump and handle , Gangway , Swimming ladder , Door panels-keys , Boat hook , Winch handles , Dinghy, pump, oars , Outboard motor , Plastic bucket , Water Jerrycan , Diesel jerrycan , Engine oil , Fuel funnel , Deckbrush , Gas bottles , Spare Anchor , Mooring lines , Cockpit table , Cockpit cushions

Sails, covers, rigging : Furling Genoa , Main sail , Bimini top , Sprayhood , Lazy Jacks , Lazy bag

Safety equipment : Horseshoe lifebuoy , Floating light , Emergency helm , Life raft , Torch light , Bosun’s chair , Radar reflector , Black Ball , Fire extinguishers , Safety belts , Life jackets , Box of flares , First aid kit , Fog horn

Navigation equipment : Cockpit compass , Speed log , Echo sounder , Wind instruments , Hand bearing comp , Divider , Parallel ruler , Croatia Waters Pilot , GPS , VHF , Clock , Barometer , Binoculars , Autopilot

Spares and tools : Dinghy repair kit , Engine’s spares , Sails repair kit , Toolbox , Boat documents , Boat manuals

Linen : Bed sheets , Pillows , Pillows cases , Blankets , Towels

Galley : Gas stove & oven , Electric fridge , Icebox , Cuttlery – Kitchen equipment , Pans, plates, glasses, spoons, knifes, etc.

Comfort: Wifi – WLAN TV DVD Player Inverter Lazy-Jack Cockpit Speakers Dinghy

Navigation: Autopilot Colour Chart Plotter

Optional (available on some vessels): Air condition Generator Inverter

INCLUDED IN PRICE

Croatia VAT of 13% is included in the prices, Bed linen and pillows, Standard yacht equipment, Dinghy

NOT INCLUDED IN PRICE

Fuel, Water, End cleaning, Provisions, marina fees, Crew, skipper, hostess, cook, optional APA 30%

High season is considered to be July and August Low season is considered to be period from October to April

Charter Terms

Thing to know, licence and skipper for renting a catamaran.

A licence is required to sail a catamaran in Croatia, you check the list on our page “Acceptable licences in Croatia” . However, if you and your crew do not have a boat licence you can easily add a skipper or any other crew member.

Security Deposit for renting catamaran in Croatia

Similarly to renting a car, chartering a boat requires a security deposit when renting a catamaran in Croatia. The deposit, fully refundable after check-out, covers you and your fellow passengers against accidental damage and ensures that contractual obligations are met. The security deposit varies in value depending on the model and brand of the boat. It will be returned to you after the boat has been inspected and is deemed undamaged.

Insurance of a catamaran and payment insurance

We have partnered with WIENER INSURANCE GROUP to additionally insured all your payments send to us with Wire transfer and also credit card payments are fully insured when renting a catamaran in Croatia. By Croatia law, all catamarans and passangers are fully insured for the time of the charter.

Cancellation policy for chartering a catamaran in Croatia

Europe Yachts Charter Group offers a full refund for cancellations made within 24 hours of booking for a catamaran charter in Croatia. For cancellations made up to 7 days after the booking date, a 12% handling fee is retained. For bookings cancelled up to 30 days before the check-in date, a 50% refund of the total amount is applied. Cancellations made within less than 30 days of the check-in date are not eligible for refund. Please be aware that the conditions of our charter partners’ own policies apply. If you have further questions regarding our cancellation policy, please contact our customer support team.

What happens when I request an offer for renting a catamaran?

Once we receive your request for renting a catamaran in Croatia, one of our booking managers will confirm the availability of the boat, as well as check for alternative ones and send it all by email. To ensure your experience is the best it can be, we may contact you to discuss your request in detail. Let us do the research for you – free of charge.

When can I get in touch with the skipper when renting a catamaran in Croatia?

You can get in touch with the skipper as soon as you’ve completed your booking of a catamaran in Croatia. Our skippers are highly qualified and knowledgeable about their locality. They all speak English. The skipper is to be payed in the marina at the check in (for crewed charter, the crew is already included in the price)

What is a Transit Log?

A Transit Log is a variable payment when renting a catamaran in Croatia, which can include the following: bed linen, cleaning, on-board Internet connection, tourist tax and base marina fees. The details of the Transit Log differ depending on the boat, location and charter partner. Once you choose your boat, our team will be able to outline the specifics of the Transit Log associated with your booking.

Are there any other costs I should be aware of when renting a catamaran in Croatia?

There are marina fees and fuel costs which vary depending on the type, duration and location of your catamaran sailing holiday in Croatia. Marina fees need to be paid at each marina you choose to dock overnight – the amount varies but you may be able to find this information in advance by contacting the marinas directly. Fuel costs depend on whether you’re you like to sail or go with the motor.

Here is the example of all obligatory and optional costs for one of the catamarans .

CATAMARAN: 3,735.00 € Standard charter pack: 170.00 € (OBLIGATORY) Tourist tax: 1.30 € per person per day (OBLIGATORY) Skipper: 1,050.00 € (OPTIONAL) Hostess: 910.00 € (OPTIONAL)

And here are some estimates expenses:

Fuel est.: 250 – 350 € Mooring fees est.: 200 – 400 € Presuming that most of the nights will be on the anchor or mooring buoy. Some people will go entire week with only 150 € spent on mooring fees. It also depends on the weather. It is safer to be in marina if there is a storm. Food: 450 €+ (provisions for boat + skipper) Please note that this does not include dinners in restaurants. Meals in restaurants are 15 € for pizza and soft drinks, while full meals are 25-35 € per person.

VAT is included in all the prices.

How fast is a lagoon 630 motor yacht?

The Lagoon 630 motor yacht has a top speed of approximately 15-20 knots (17-23 MPH, depending on its configuration and engine options. With its impressive speed and performance capabilities, the Lagoon 630 motor yacht offers a thrilling and comfortable way to explore the open waters.

Can one person sail a 60 foot catamaran?

It is strongly advisable to have at least a small crew when operating a 60-foot catamaran to ensure safe navigation and to share the workload. Even experienced sailors often opt for a team to manage such vessels effectively and enjoy a more relaxed and secure sailing experience.

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CONTACT CENTER

HEAD OFFICE Cusmanich LTD Vrboran 37 21000 Split, Croatia

FLEET OFFICE Grabova 21b 21000 Split, Croatia

+385 21 55 33 01 +385 91 3000 009 +385 98 360 398

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[email protected]

HEAD OFFICE Cusmanich LTD Vrboran 37 21000 Split, Croatia FLEET OFFICE Grabova 21b 21000 Split, Croatia

about Catamaran Charter Croatia

We are professional charter company specialized in renting catamarans. Our story began in 2004, to address the need for specialized catamaran charter company in Croatia .

get in touch

+385 98 360 398.

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EXCESS 11 ALL THE FEATURES OF A BIG BOAT

The Excess 11 is the only large-scale production boat on the market for this size of catamaran. This 37ft cruising catamaran is impressive both in terms of comfort and space, as in terms of sailing sensations. The Excess 11 is a boat capable of long passages and is made for life on board. The work of the naval architects and designers has been focused on one objective: to create a real cruising catamaran capable of taking you to the most remote spots on earth to enjoy an isolated cove, an abandoned beach or a secret wave.

Excess 11 WELCOME ON BOARD!

Excess 11 has benefited from the experience of her elders, without sacrificing all the comfort attributes needed for enjoyable cruising. Add to this a volume worthy of a larger boat, whether in the saloon or in the cabins, with for example a 2 by 2-meter (6½’x6½’) bed in the owner's cabin or bathrooms with separate showers! On deck, she offers the comfort and friendliness of a large open cockpit and twin helm stations, offering both real steering sensations and direct contact with the rest of the crew. Our Excess catamarans are equipped with SEANAPPS technology : the solution for keeping your boat safe and seaworthy at any moment.Thanks to a device installed on board and a mobile application, you can access all your boat's information directly from your smartphone. That’s the synthesis of the Excess spirit: a boat with a racy design, that’s light and comfortable!

BREATHTAKING DESIGN

The Excess 11 has an assertive and qualitative personality that breaks with the codes of traditional sailboats.

TWIN AFT HELM STATION

From one helm station to the other, the Excess 11 offers an ideal view of the sails, the sea and the bows.

A MODERN ATMOSPHERE

The Excess 11 has been designed to offer you a lively atmosphere on board your boat.

OPENING TO THE STARS

The Excess 11 gives you the unique opportunity to transform your cockpit to suit your desires.

INSPIRED BY RACING, BUILT FOR CRUISING

Thanks to her sporty rig offering a super advantageous aspect ratio and the optional Pulse line rig, the promise of thrills is guaranteed.

WELCOME ABOARD THE EXCESS 11 IN 360° MODE

THE ESSENTIALS IN FIGURES

Discover the specifications of the Excess 11 catamaran with sporty rig and sophisticated design.

Square-top mainsail

55m² / 592 sq ft

Self-tacking jib

22m² / 237 sq ft

Code 0 (option)

54m² / 581 sq ft

Upwind sail area

77m² / 829 sq ft

Upwind sail area PULSE LINE

82m² / 882 sq ft

Overall length

11,42 m / 37'5''

11,33 m / 36'3''

6,59 m / 21'7''

17,27 m / 56'8''

1,15 m / 3'9''

Light displacement (CE)

9 T / 19 845 lbs

CE Certifications

A:8 - B:12 - C:16 - D:20

Fresh water capacity

300 L / 79 US Gal

Holding tank capacity

160 L / 42 US Gal

Fuel capacity

400 L / 106 US gal

Request more information

Salon and cockpits

3 cabin 2 head version, 4 cabin 2 head version, roof standard, roof option.

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TESTIMONIES OF PASSIONATE OWNERS Join the Excess tribe !

"I like this boat because it's fun, it's fast and it also allows you to cruise, so it's a good mix between cruising and fast sailing."

Ned and Misala

"In Tahiti, there are children who have never seen the sea, and we'd like to take them sailing. It's part of one of our projects with the Excess 11".

Hinatea & Tristan

"I found that sailing was both relaxing and stimulating, as well as a good escape from the stress of my profession. »

“I love both the profile and the “hybrid” concept, halfway between a traditional monohull and a very cruisey catamaran such as a Lagoon. It's comfortable and easy to sail, with no more water on deck... And ladies prefer a boat that doesn’t heel!”

“I've been seduced by the performance of the Excess range, and that’s really why I've just bought an Excess 14, which for me is the ideal compromise. For me, with my sailing experience, it’s interior space and habitability, it meets all my expectations!”

“We spent exactly 365 days onboard of our Excess 11 in both the Mediterranean and the Caribbean and loved the combination of comfort and sailing performance. We never imagined that taking showers or cooking while crossing an ocean would be so much fun!”

Marco and Lizzy

“In our opinion, this is the perfect compromise between comfort under way and at anchor, and great sailing sensations with performance that frequently impresses us! It sails very well upwind as well as in light airs. From 7 knots of apparent wind, we move faster under sail than under motor. We don't regret our choice one bit, and enjoy every day spent on board our Silène.”

Marion and Arthur

"The boat was really light and fast, the mainsail is laregerand easier to operate. The sails can be hoisted and lowered very quicly... The self-tacking of the foresail, ma,ny catamarans don't have this. This one is especially good for leisure sailing, family outing, for the begginers starters... First of all, it's covenient. That's impportant, it's easy to maneuver, it's easy to get started."

Did you meet our other catamarans yet?