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General tiara yachts discussion, coupe series.

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Tatasboat New Member

Hey everyone, If this is in the wrong place to post this will a moderator please put this in the correct area. I am newbie both the forums and the boating world. I have always had a love and reverence of water, I was a swimmer for more years than I can remember, but never had access to a boat growing up. I have run smaller inland boats (pontoons, ski boats, etc), but nothing on large fresh water like the great lakes. I am looking to purchase a boat and in the next year or so and am looking at a flybridge style ship, with at least 3 cabins and do not plan on doing any fishing. I have looked at the Fairline yacht line, and have found very few "griping" posts and articles, same went for Prestige. Before I ever captain my boat I will be taking the necessary boating courses and doing self study to make sure I am comfortable with operating. Even hiring a captain to help me gain additional experience and knowledge. I am no fool, I am not trying to bite off more than I can chew. I am looking for your feedback/experiences on the 40-50' range of boats from both builders. The boat will spend the majority of time on the Great Lakes, but I would like to take it out to the East Coast on a long voyage as well. I look forward to hearing back from everyone, Nick

el mojito New Member

I have done 2 crossings from Barcelona to Ibiza with what they call the 440S express and feel they look like a lot of boat for the price but would not own one. First crossing on 3 ft head seas had to slow down to 10-12 knots, sunroof broke and when we checked the parts that broke were very fragile (tempted to say poor quality). Look for the weight on a boat to measure what goes into it. I own a 1996 Bertram 46 - weight 45,000 lb. - the Prestige (Jeaneau) is 20,600 although its really 7 feet shorter. When looking at their boat keep in mind that European measure boats including pulpit and swim platform - look for hull length to do your comparisons. It handles very good in calm seas and is very good on fuel with the IPS. A friend has a 20 year old Fairline and at least from that vintage an altogether different class. He normally goes slower by choice but 3 ft seas are nothing. Heavier and much more heavy duty construction. I guess also more expensive but then you get what you pay for. Hope this helps.

NYCAP123 Senior Member

I'm also not that familiar with the Prestige yachts, but Fairline make good boats. To what the previous responder mentioned about length, If the swim platform and/or bow pulpit are part of the mold they're generally counted in the length. It they're added on they're not. So you could easily have a 5' to 8' or more difference in length and living space between two boat the "same length". 50' could easily mean a LOA of 56' or 44'. One thing you should strongly consider as you decide what boat to buy is support. How hard will it be to get work done. If a builder doesn't have a strong U.S. dealer network you may have trouble getting parts. As you look at some of these boats with features like cars (power windows, power roofs, etc.) remember the abuse boats take. It's easy to knock a power whatever off it's track unless it's heavily built. Getting gizmos fixed can get very expensive. Also, the engines each has. If they're MANNS or MTU's or whatever, do you have people trained to service them in your area or will you have to travel or pay them to travel 200 miles? This becomes very important on the Great Lakes as services for larger boats can be fairly limited.

Liam Senior Member

Fairline is definitly on another level versus Prestige.... Also heard not so many nice reports on the recent Prestige builds, Beneteau Group build powerboats but have not seen any pictures or proofs. I would more compare Fairline with a Princess, Azimut/Atlantis, Sunseeker, Cranchi, Sessa etc altough may be still the best of the lot. Another builder who is making improvements in this size is Polish Galeon. The new Prestige looks are very nice, and the price is also very competitive, with all this you would expect quality short comings but in which area? That where it all matters.

Rodger Senior Member

Prestige Took up two new Prestige up canal last week. The one in picture is the 45' and I was on a 55' and last May took up another 55'

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Prestige Liam, The Galeon distributors for the US are friends of mine. They are of a higher level than Prestige. I have been on their boats and they are solid and very well put together. Anyone considering boats in this size range should ask to see the engine room installation, electrical installations and other areas below decks to compare what you don't see. Also look for what is the standard equipment each boat has in the price.

Rodger said: ↑ Took up two new Prestige up canal last week. The one in picture is the 45' and I was on a 55' and last May took up another 55' Click to expand...

hah Pastizzi r good Rikotta or Pizelli (Peas) I like them mixed 2 and 2. As for Azimut short comings in my experience to what I have seen many EU builders will compare quite not so good to the electronics part as a Cabo - Viking - Tiara - Hatteras, which seems to be the critic coming mostly to the Azimut's here. Why to them not to the others. I think Azimut sells about 100 new boats a year in the US, so its more easily to find one then the others. May be of those mentioned only Sunseeker comes close with Princess following it.... This goes to the medium range of these builder 40 - 60 feet. Seakeeping I think most Azimuts (some models same size might end up being better) can give quite a challenge to a Fairline but as I stated the British builder will still end up being better as an overall build. Also some engine rooms in my books r much better in Azimut then they are in Fairline but in the last ten years the British builder has improved in this area. Overall quality the Fairline will be better, but Azimuts have some areas which are better then Fairline in there own in my book. Now if after sales are not so good in an area versus another thats another story. I think I heard the NY area is very well serviced, while in the Florida area it is so and so.... Having said all this, I still think Azimut's having that extra step versus the Prestige, something which is also reflected in price..... Ah if you want IPS I would also add Absolute to that list, these people ex-Gobbi builders are making nice boats, and surely are among the best running IPS pod boats around. Consider that all the line is IPS powered, and each friend who owns a 41 and 45 is very much happy with it.... Anyways in all things the most thing you can do is visit the boat you like and open all areas, and start to see stuff on your own, do a sea trial and see what your will feel. If still you are not convinced you can still do a new build survey if you are buyng new (*important to put in contract). I have helmed a few Azimuts including a 42 for charter for half a Summer and I was pretty impressed by its handling and performance and trouble free ride. At that time this boat was a seven year old boat, so I go with what my experience says.... Last but not least Azimuts are also usually powered by Cats or Cummins which IMO are a better engine to the Volvos (esp EDC new electic engines), and also gives better after sales in US to the green engines, but thats a personal opinion, like most of the things I said here.

If you were in the market for POD driven boats in the 45-55ft range, what would be your top 5 builders/brands? top 10 brands? Would this list differ for Great Lakes boats vs those used on the East/West Coast of the US? In buying a new or used boat, I personally want to put quality/craftsmanship tops on the list in determining which boat I would like to buy. I would rather buy a smaller boat, because it has a better reputation for quality than just getting a bigger boat and having to spend an abnormal amount of time and $$ fixing it. Yes I know things will break and go wrong and money will be spent, but I hope what I am saying makes sense.

stefandoc New Member

hi, pod driven boats 44" to 55" and built quality/craftmanship as most important thing i put only manufactured and no custom builds on my list, and only gfk and volvo ips, i`m not so familiar with mercury axius and american boat market my ranking: top boats : 1. nord west najad ( in your range only a 44", but highest standard and beautifully built) 2. windy 45" and 52" 3. princess 48" (princess quality is increasing from year to year) 4. fairline 48" 5. sunseeker 48" 6. azimut 55s (three ips 600, very expensive and very small cruising range) 6. cranchi (you really get a lot of boat for your money) average boats: sessa absolute low quality boats: bavaria prestige beneteau this is my very own opinion and i mentioned only boats i know

In that list I would put Sessa, Absolute in the top boats, especially Absolute who for IPS have a winning hull who has little comparison in my book. They have been doing IPS boats since start, and today all the range is IPS powered. Yes they still have some stupid details to sort out, but those are so small with 1k you would do a feast. I have a friend who cruises with Absolute 45 with two other guys Cranchi 43, and a Sunseeker 47; the last two are IPS boat, his Abs is stern drive but in rough weather they have to ride behind him. Anyways OP is in the US, and in this position my first look would be the new Tiara 50; they just completed the Coupe, but a flybridge version is on the works on the same hull. Lovely boat and for over-all quality should beat everyone in that list. Another boat I would look at is the Marquis 500 SC but I am not a fan of triple pod installation so if I was in your lucky position I would definitly scrub it out.... Same for the Azimut 55S which I love by look and design, but the 3xIPS is not something I am a fan off....

Liam said: ↑ Anyways OP is in the US, and in this position my first look would be the new Tiara 50; they just completed the Coupe, but a flybridge version is on the works on the same hull. Lovely boat and for over-all quality should beat everyone in that list. Another boat I would look at is the Marquis 500 SC but I am not a fan of triple pod installation so if I was in your lucky position I would definitly scrub it out.... Same for the Azimut 55S which I love by look and design, but the 3xIPS is not something I am a fan off.... Click to expand...

Given the chance on a 15 meters size, I would always go for an IPS II option, or for a larger choice engine which reaches that 32/33 knots max. A friend of myn has an Absolute 52, 2 x IPS600 D6 435hp they did 31 knots new boat not much loaded. Now he is doing 28-29 WOT, and to cruise at about 23 knots it drinks about 120 lph. I know shaft driven boats, with larger engines, who weight more and drink more or less the same, and same or even higher cruising speeds. That is more or less the problem for being powered just right.

i agree totally to liam that absolute has a lot of experience with ips and very ips-capable hulls, but the thread starter wanted a list reguarding craftmanship/quality. and there i see absolute as not more than average. very basic electrical installation with cables running over sharp edges, pu-foam residues in the angles, thin hull, cheap joinery. sorry for my bad english

Have to disagree totally with you about Absolute, as the ones I visited had joinery which was to the level of Fairline. Thin hull, are you sure of this? Most Abs are 1 inch think in most areas, and use very little coring in the the hull, more of this in the newer models. The ones I visited where boats build up until 2008, I also visited hull One of the 53 STY had a few squeaking noises but so does (if not more) the new V48 in a video they posted on-line. Considering it was hull one and they had a long list of things to change this pretty normal... Electrical installation is basic but as long as it works who is to argue with that. Most EU builds in my book have very basic electrical, and so do many US builders, it is when you get to the top dogs most of which are sport fish builders that things start to change to another level. I think the real problem for the OP is that Absolute distribution in the US is very limited if any of it, if it was a European customer I would put the Abs on top of the list for an IPS boat.

I appreciate all of the advice, I think I will have to leave absolute off the list as there are no dealers near the Great Lakes. I believe I am leaning at this point between fairline and tiara yachts. In reading a bit a hour each boat, what is the differnce between ips and ipsII? Both boats have 2 engine layout, but one calls out an ips system and the latter an ipsII? If on fairline website engine layout is only shaft diesel, can you place an ips unit in lieu of shaft?

The 50 Squadron and Targa GT are only shaft boats, but Fairline has just launched a new 48 series with IPS pods (50ft LOA). This is Fairline second IPS boat after the 2007 presented 44 Targa GT which was changed to a stern drive system after two years in production. They launched the 48 Targa Open in Summer, and tomorrow in Southampton show they will present the new 48 Squadron. Both will will be powered by IPS600 Volvo D6 435hp engines, and also are the first from Fairline to be totally build by infusion method. The layout is totally different from the 50, featuring a two large cabins on standard layout with midship full beam owners cabin, and a third bunk cabin available in replacement of the lower deck saloon. The 50 in my understand will also be renamed a 52/53 later on with a larger hi/low bathing platform, making this change... A 48 Targa GT enclosed hard top should launch later on, or in early 2014. Nearly same as Open, but with a tad more extended hard-top, and a patio door. The IPS II is the second generation of pods, with the 600 hp engines, called the IPS 700 and 800. FYI there is also the IPS III, so far largest featuring Volvos large D13 900hp engines and called IPS1200 and 1050 units, these last with 800hp units. Hope that clarifies all for you....

Liam said: ↑ The 50 Squadron and Targa GT are only shaft boats, but Fairline has just launched a new 48 series with IPS pods (50ft LOA). This is Fairline second IPS boat after the 2007 presented 44 Targa GT which was changed to a stern drive system after two years in production. They launched the 48 Targa Open in Summer, and tomorrow in Southampton show they will present the new 48 Squadron. Both will will be powered by IPS600 Volvo D6 435hp engines, and also are the first from Fairline to be totally build by infusion method. The IPS II is the second generation of pods, with the 600 hp engines, called the IPS 700 and 800. FYI there is also the IPS III, so far largest featuring Volvos large D13 900hp engines and called IPS1200 and 1050 units, these last with 800hp units. Hope that clarifies all for you.... Click to expand...

Fairline changed the 44 from IPS to stern drive because it was cheaper to build in the stern drive, and with this it came competitive with other Euro builds i.e. Absolute, Jeanneau, and also the Princess V45 of the same year. Anyways the 44 Targa GT became more to 100k UK£ cheaper because of this change with twin D4 300hp engines... Included in this where other changes if I remember like a ceramic hob, to a gas one, and a smaller standard generator. The bad idea in this is that those who bought the IPS 44 Targa had a also to reduce the price of a used boat they wanted to sell; i.e. price reduction of 100k out of the blue. Resin infusion is a more sophisticated method to the traditional way of building (think it was introduced in the eighties), saves weight and also uses less resin. My concerns about this method is that it is a BIT more prone to errors then the old way, which usually ends in de-lamination in an areas, if you that unlucky chap who your boat being laminated the day after the lamination guy went to party, or had some other problems in his mind. We have seen this here, and this is a forum, imagine how much more you see if you worked in a big yard who lifts 100 of boats every year. We see how Fairline will perform, but at the moment I do know what method they are using. Yes Hobz biz-Zejt (bread with oil) LOL is also good on the boat or by the sea, I love it as well. With Tuna and Kappar is among the best, but you do need Maltese Ftira for this!

tonyp1203 New Member

I realize this response comes a bit late but hopefully it will help another potential buyer that is exploring purchasing a Prestige. I work as a delivery Captain with 30 years of experience running boats ranging from small runabouts to yachts over 115 feet for over 30 years. I also have several trans-Atlantic crossings under my belt and over one hundred trips throughout the Bahamas. During this time I have operated many boats including Betram, Hatteras, Sunseeker, Viking, U.S Naval crafts (as part of my job as a Special Naval Warfare Contractor)….. and Prestige Yachts. I state this only in the hopes of establishing credibility in what I’m about to write in support of Prestige yachts. Also, in the spirit of goodwill and full disclosure, I am often retained by Prestige yacht owners and one Prestige dealer to operate their yachts for a variety of purposes including performing sea tests, new owner orientations / lessons and delivering Prestige yachts throughout Florida and the Yucatan Peninsula in all weather conditions, oftentimes adverse. One of the comments I read on this thread hits upon the topic of weight. The point being heavier is better. While this has generally been known to be true, today’s technology provides builders the ability to build a strong boat while keeping the weight under control thus providing the yacht owner with a strong boat capable of exceptional fuel economy and speed with performance-like handling capabilities. With that being stated, I will agree that heavier displacement hulls are better suited for vessels designed for blue water / trans-Atlantic crossings where the ability to plow through big seas takes precedence over speed, performance and economy. Nordhaven is a perfect example of this. However, Prestige yachts are built for the recreational boater who does not operate more than a few hundred miles offshore and appreciates speed, performance, fuel economy and strength over weight…..and excessive cost. With that point being made, it is important to realize that a lighter hull does not necessarily mean a weaker hull, and here’s why;. Prestige and several other high-end builders use the Vaccum Bagging / infusion system in the construction of their yachts. This Vacuum Bagging / Infusion process keeps the fiberglass cloth from floating during installation which creates a stronger bond and the vaccum Infusing process allows precise control over how much resin is used. The end result is a much stronger, more precisely engineered laminate when compared to the conventional construction process. The Vacuum Bagging system also reduces the amount of resin used, saving the builder money. These savings are then passed on to the customer (at least by Prestige). It is also salient to note that the Vaccum Bag / Infusion system is not cheap to put together and to the best of my knowledge very few U.S yacht builders use this system except for a few high-end yacht manufacturers. The vaccum bagging / infusion construction method is just one example of how Prestige saves money on construction and materials without sacrificing looks, quality and strength, the end result being the delivery of a performance focused high-end caliber luxury yacht at a moderate price point. On a related note, NYCAP made a good point that a builder must have a strong U.S dealer network in order to provide the sales and service support needed for their products. I have discovered that the folks at Prestige fully understand this and appear to have built a strong network of dealers, for example, Intermarine, Inc. handles SE Florida from Jacksonville to Key West and the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico. There are many more Prestige Dealers throughout the U.S. As far as engines and generators are concerned, Prestige uses Volvo and Cummings engines whose dealership network are also quite strong in the U.S and abroad. After operating everything from the finest most expensive yachts to boats that made me think I was about to become a torpedo pilot, I can attest to the fact that all yachts, even the finest most expensive brands will have some bugs and if you look hard enough there are always things that could have been designed better. Prestige is no exception to this. However, I think that the designers at Prestige have done a great job of merging the best state-of-the-art designs into one very nice yacht.....fast, agile and good looking too boot! -Their dealer based customer support is also unsurpassed in the industry, in my opinion. I hope this helps anyone that is considering purchasing a Prestige. I strongly suggest that you contact your local Prestige dealer and take one out for a demo ride and explore every nook and cranny of this well built yacht then compare to the competition within the same price range. I know I surely appreciate the ride, comfort, low-noise, excellent visibility and sports-car like handling characteristics of every Prestige yacht I have operated. Thanks for reading this. Captain Tony P

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