domino power catamaran

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Power Cats - interesting article

• Thread starter mvweebles
• Start date Sep 12, 2022
• Sep 12, 2022

This 3-yr old article was recently posted on CruisersForum. Good article on passagemaking power cats. Domino is heavily discussed ("along with Dashews FPB, a "super passagemaker" class") with a good link at the end. I still shake my head that it took so long to sell Domino (cudos to Klee Wyck for taking the plunge) https://bluenomads.blog/2019/09/20/long-range-power-catamarans/ Peter.  

mvweebles said: This 3-yr old article was recently posted on CruisersForum. Good article on passagemaking power cats. Domino is heavily discussed ("along with Dashews FPB, a "super passagemaker" class") with a good link at the end. I still shake my head that it took so long to sell Domino (cudos to Klee Wyck for taking the plunge) https://bluenomads.blog/2019/09/20/long-range-power-catamarans/ Peter. Click to expand...

Attachments

My sense was the challenge with selling Domino was her single head layout. While I understand the concern, a thoroughly addressable issue I'd imagine. Also, if she'd been for sale in a more accessible yachting center. But in the end, I don't think many people are that interested in passagemaking style of cruising. Certainly in North America, power cats are an anomaly which made her attractively priced. Sum is I am not surprised you are in awe of the boat regardless of price. BTW - impressive as a carport! Peter  

Will Domino be used on passages to take advantages of it’s amazing range?  

mvweebles said: My sense was the challenge with selling Domino was her single head layout. While I understand the concern, a thoroughly addressable issue I'd imagine. Also, if she'd been for sale in a more accessible yachting center. But in the end, I don't think many people are that interested in passagemaking style of cruising. Certainly in North America, power cats are an anomaly which made her attractively priced. Sum is I am not surprised you are in awe of the boat regardless of price. BTW - impressive as a carport! Peter Click to expand...

neworleansrich

Senior member.

Anyone interested in a boat of similar size and range as Domino, the Catalyst (ex Delilah Sue) is now for sale. I spent 2 years upgrading all systems, then cruising her on the Gulf Coast and Bahamas. We bought this boat as a three way partnership and it seems everyone is now heading in other directions. This is a great boat that would be hard to duplicate for over $1,000,000. https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/2004-alwoplast-crowther-8285125/  

mcarthur said: Thanks Peter - that's my article . It does need some updating, as there are more and more boats coming out, many that continue the efficient CS (canoe stern) from Malcolm Tennant rather than aiming for the charter market: new ones from Longreach , sales of big things and smaller . Of course lots of interest in hybrid and electric , electric , and more electric since the hull form and efficiency is probably one of the best matches for that use for smaller vessels. Click to expand...

• Sep 13, 2022

mvweebles said: Cool! A friend bought a 2014 Horizon 52 PC. Not exactly a pasaagemaker, but does have some decent range. Sounds like Horizon has a decent step-up program with dedicated owners. The PC52 with 700g of diesel is an entry level PC at close to $2m. Good article. Thanks for the contribution. Peter Click to expand...

I am going to beat a dead horse here, but.... To expound upon the difference referred to in the prior post I have attached four images of the hull(s)profile showing where and how these two vessels (the PC52 and DOMINO) might impact the water (and therefore describe the motion of the vessel) when sailing to weather. One photo is the PC52 and the other three are DOMINO. Both boats good at what they do I expect, but designed to do different things, I think. Tennant was committed to drawing hulls that excelled at sailing TO weather. I think this was also a large part of the impetus for the FPB as well. The result is a pair of hulls on a Tennant that build and decay reserve buoyancy at very moderate rates as they encounter a wave until encountering the bridge deck which sits far above the water. Then when nearing that point where the water will impact the bridge deck there is the center divider which has the effect of making that impact more gradual by creating a pair of trapped air 'cushions' that keep the impact from being severe. I have never heard this hull slap which is quite common in most cats I suspect. One of these vessels pictured will experience slap and heave when head seas are less than two feet and one of them will not. We generally discuss the Tennant hulls in terms of speed and efficiency, but I have been perhaps more impressed by their effect on comfort when sailing to weather. In the last image I have added a blue line and a red line. The point here is that if you are landing on the next wave, better to land on it at the angle in the blue line than at the angle in the red line. Much less violent impact. An ordinary vessel can tack or turn and run when conditions deteriorate in head seas, but in my experience, DOMINO can stay her course to weather in comfort and without pitching over quite a range of sea states. So, you get the wide stance for protection from motion in beam seas and her length and hull form for the same in head seas. Roll and pitch and I think to a greater degree for pitch. To be sure, the PC52 can create very plush and spacious accommodations below deck by using the room created by bringing that deck much closer to the waterline and spreading the cabins into that space. You do not get that on DOMINO so there is very little space down in those hulls except for far aft where the machinery spaces are.  

Klee Wyck - my only point in referencing the Horizon PC52 was because the author of the article chimed-in and noted several additions to the PC field. Having spent some quality time on a PC52, I can tell you it's a luxurious boat which while I appreciate, is about as far from our style as possible. Just not how we roll - guessing Domino would be more our style as we are pretty utility-driven. Part of the reason my friend went with a Power Cat was his wife suffers horribly from seasickness. Well, the ride on his PC52 isn't great - he really prefers a stabilized monohull to the jerkiness of his PC. It's fairly efficient in relative terms - burns about 36-38 gph/18-20 kts (load dependent - picks up a couple knots as the tanks burn-down). We've also run it at 8-kts and she gets an honest 7 gph with her twin 435hp Cummins. She carries 700 gals of diesel but the tanks are oddly laid-out so not sure how much is usable (one tank is laid horizontal, the other is vertical - they do not balance well at all, something they've changed on subsequent hulls). However, I can tell you my friend genuinely loves the boat. He received several offers well above what he paid for it 5-years ago and turned them down. He likes the pizzazz of having a shiney yacht with multiple ice machines and iPad controls with 4 TVs (I have exactly zero TVs). To each their own. I really like your boat (have liked all your boats). Someday, would love to get a tour of her. Peter  

Terry Wilkinson

Veteran member.

We were fortunate enough to meet the owners of Domino in La Paz when they stopped there and were offered a tour of the boat, amazing boat , the size and space, the single head would be no problem. I’ve owned 3 powercats although not of this size, and really liked them, however just returned to a monohull, a classic Bertram 38 for our use in La Paz. Someday, maybe a boat like Domino, who knows!  

The original article was supposed to be about options for long range cruising (a la Beebe) powercats. I do have some other articles on powercat fuel efficiency as well as cruising powercats (part 1) and part 2 in general. Again, a bit dated and need to be brought uptodate...  

• Sep 14, 2022

guy with a boat

klee wyck said: I am going to beat a dead horse here, but.... Click to expand...

Agree - no dead horse, appreciate the knowledgeable discussion. I like the moniker "Super Passagemaker" with examples being FPB and Domino. In the past, I've suggested a term like "Coastal Passagemaking" to define aggressive trekking such as Alaska to Maine, but no ocean crossing - longest hops are in the 500-700 nm range, though range between fuel stops may be much greater (1000-1500 nms). I haven't read Beebes VUP in years so am a bit rusty on his specific guidance, and to some extent it was tilted a bit in the Leishman update I last read. But I do recall my Willard 36 had a modest mention, and I would not consider my boat a full-on passagemaker in the same vein as a Nordhavn, but I also wouldn't consider the older KK42 to be comparable to Nordhavn either. Although my old Willard and the older KKs have crossed oceans, they do not have the same scantlings of Nordhavn. They also don't protect against down-flooding the way comparable Nordhavn designs do, at least contemporary boats when VUP was published. They are fantastic examples of coastal passagemakers. Back to power cats, if you accept some middling category of coastal passagemaking, there are quite a few options. McArthur's Part 1 & 2 links in his last post would fall into this type of category. As would the Horizon PCs. I see the PC52 now carries 960 gals diesel. These boats have a strong following and are actively cruised along the eastern seaboard down into the Caribbean. It's a luxury niche with heavy use of marinas and delivery skippers to reposition boats. https://horizonpowercatamarans.com/our-yachts/ Not comparing to a hard-core passagemaker like Domino - she's sort of in a category of her own. But am pointing out that PCs are a hidden market. McArthurs second and third articles point that out well. Peter  

Hippocampus

Haven’t done passage on power cats so statements refer to sail. However the sea is the sea. Very much like tenant and tenant derived hulls. Three things I’ve noticed. First, cats have a tendency to stall. Those with thin hulls, both above and below the waterline, do it less. Those with the bridge deck starting farther aft do it less. Those where there the bridge deck has insufficient clearance above the dynamic waterline do it more. Even when the boat doesn’t stop completely it’s unpleasant. Example of a good offshore design preventing this is a Outremer or Catana. Bad the production charter cats used in the Caribbean fleets. Cats have a tendency to hobby horse. Those of sufficient length and fine entries and exits do it less. Both to achieve adequate form stability and mitigate this behavior for ocean work I think loa of at least 45’ is needed. Cats may “burp”. By this mean capture air under the deck which once is sufficient in pressure be expelled forward. This can be unpleasant. Seems to be mitigated by the vestigial third “hull” under the bridge deck which also has other benefits in improving interior space, weight distribution, and ride. All three issues seem much easier to avoid in a tri. Efficiency may be the same or better. Pitchpoling risk the same or better. Ride into a wave train as good or better. Surfing risk as good or better. Unfortunately all at the expense of usable space. One of the issues with any light displacement vessel, be it mono tri or cat, is they float on the water not in it. Unfortunately they have a tendency to move not only with the swell but also the wind waves. Light monos usually have the ability to mitigate this annoying motion with gyro, Magnus, fins or fish but none are usually applicable to multis. Again if the multi has fine enough hulls and is long enough motion is improved without detriment to efficiency. But again at the expense of usable space. One concern I have with any multi is engine and steering access. Often there is none except through access hatches from the deck not the interior. Several sailing multis, including a Gunboat, have gotten into very serious trouble because of this. In a seaway it maybe impractical and downright dangerous to try to access those spaces. Not only risk to crew but also down flooding risk.  

I've never run a powercat, but I am interested in them as they have obvious advantages. I did a quick tour of a beautiful Leopard 43 this summer and was impressed. One negative thing I have heard a few times about them though is that they have a very uncomfortable "snap" motion in beam seas. Can y'all comment on that? Thanks.  

And I imagine they aren’t popular in the Med as they would be charged mooring fees like a super yacht given the beam!  

Dougcole said: I've never run a powercat, but I am interested in them as they have obvious advantages. I did a quick tour of a beautiful Leopard 43 this summer and was impressed. One negative thing I have heard a few times about them though is that they have a very uncomfortable "snap" motion in beam seas. Can y'all comment on that? Thanks. Click to expand...

Blue Yonder

One concern I have with any multi is engine and steering access. Often there is none except through access hatches from the deck not the interior. Several sailing multis, including a Gunboat, have gotten into very serious trouble because of this. Click to expand...

A Covid dockmate had a horizon 52 pc. His previous boat was a Fleming 55. After Covid he sold the pc and bought another Fleming. Reasons cited were seaworthiness difficulty getting dock space and haul outs. When he bought the horizon he got me interested in cats to the point I almost built one. In the end many of the issues brought up by hippocampus were beyond compromise for my wife and I.  

Greetings, Apologies for the slight? thread drift...Will start new thread. Actively looking for a power cat (outboards) in the 28' to 34' range (Glacier Bay, World Cat, Arrowcat) with cash in hand. Agreed that the inboard PC's suffer from skin tight ER spaces. Other than differences in handling, I haven't heard too much negative about "sport" cats (for want of a better description).  

RT Firefly said: Greetings, Apologies for the slight? thread drift...Will start new thread. Actively looking for a power cat (outboards) in the 28' to 34' range (Glacier Bay, World Cat, Arrowcat) with cash in hand. Agreed that the inboard PC's suffer from skin tight ER spaces. Other than differences in handling, I haven't heard too much negative about "sport" cats (for want of a better description). Click to expand...

cafesport said: A Covid dockmate had a horizon 52 pc. His previous boat was a Fleming 55. After Covid he sold the pc and bought another Fleming. Reasons cited were seaworthiness difficulty getting dock space and haul outs. When he bought the horizon he got me interested in cats to the point I almost built one. In the end many of the issues brought up by hippocampus were beyond compromise for my wife and I. Click to expand...

Domino is in a class by herself.  

klee wyck said: Here is some data from the most recent of three Transpacs that Domino has made. Oahu to Cabo. Uphill to wind and current all the way. Some days near 300 NM covered. To compare here seaworthiness unfavorably to a Fleming seems almost.....well, silly. By the numbers: Distance: 2,661 NM Time: 10 days, 18 hours Average speed: 10.3 kts Fuel used: 2,000 Gal. Reserve: 600 Gal. Click to expand...

Peter-think just like with monos there’s major differences in a blue water multi and coastal. Very striking in powercats. Been on and have watched sailing cats and tris. Most noticeable is behavior difference between those cats where useable interior volume in the hulls is maximized to allow berthing, heads, lockers.in all four corners of the hulls. Commonly seen in charter cats. They typically have fixed keels not daggeboards or centerboards. Hulls are beaming even toward the ends.bridge decks are lower as well.this is great as they are palaces inside with lots of room and can tolerate greater weight aboard. Ocean sailing cats seem to tend to have very little house in front of the mast and not much bridge deck up there either. Sometimes they have asymmetric hulls as well. My limited observations have been noted by and supported by those more knowledgeable and experienced. I don’t think I posted anything outside the orthodoxy concerning this subject. Perhaps things are different in power but I suspect not. Perhaps those with more knowledge or experience or both than me can chime in. Think and hope there will be more interest in power multis. Especially for long term open ocean cruising. Seems as folks get more concerned about range and efficiency they have so much to offer. A side benefit is the real estate for solar.  

Domino is clearly an example of a beautifully designed and executed blue water cat. It’s a totally different beast than a charter power cat.  

Here's the rub: Passagemaking PCs are even more rare than Passagemaking Monohulls. Domino is a one-off, and there are a few others, mostly squirreled away down-under. But there are many, many options on the PC-front for coastal boats, from PDQs, to Leopards, to the Horizon PC I've spent quite a bit of time aboard. Leopards, built in South Africa, are routinely delivered to the Caribbean on their own bottow with deck-fuel. Surprises me, but it's not uncommon. Just something I wouldn't do. I was unable to find a bow-on picture of my friend's PC52 on haul-out. Somewhere I have it, but can't find it. Its a fairly fine entry as I recall as the bows are tall and flare above waterline, not unlike the general way Domino's hulls are formed. But I also suspect (with no real knowledge) that Cats need to be fairly sizeable - even 52-feet is a bit stubby. It would not be my first choice to make a serious coastal passage, and planning would depend on how fast I could run. These boats can make 200-mile days fairly efficiently, which puts a lot of legs in play for one, maybe a second overnight. Not my cup of tea, but good boats. It's good to see people asking about Power Cats. There is a lot to recommend them, even the coastal versions that predominate. Peter  

mvweebles said: Here's the rub: Passagemaking PCs are even more rare than Passagemaking Monohulls. Domino is a one-off, and there are a few others, mostly squirreled away down-under. But there are many, many options on the PC-front for coastal boats, from PDQs, to Leopards, to the Horizon PC I've spent quite a bit of time aboard. Leopards, built in South Africa, are routinely delivered to the Caribbean on their own bottow with deck-fuel. Surprises me, but it's not uncommon. Just something I wouldn't do. I was unable to find a bow-on picture of my friend's PC52 on haul-out. Somewhere I have it, but can't find it. Its a fairly fine entry as I recall as the bows are tall and flare above waterline, not unlike the general way Domino's hulls are formed. But I also suspect (with no real knowledge) that Cats need to be fairly sizeable - even 52-feet is a bit stubby. It would not be my first choice to make a serious coastal passage, and planning would depend on how fast I could run. These boats can make 200-mile days fairly efficiently, which puts a lot of legs in play for one, maybe a second overnight. Not my cup of tea, but good boats. It's good to see people asking about Power Cats. There is a lot to recommend them, even the coastal versions that predominate. Peter Click to expand...

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Blue Nomads

Two greys going blue

Long range power catamarans

Peter Brady provided a brief history ( Multihull World Magazine, #142 ) of how he saw the development of long distance power catamarans:

Arthur Defever 1960’s (“long range cruising” monohulls) –> Robert Beebe 1974 (“passage maker” monohulls) –> Malcolm Tennant 1990’s (catamarans) &  Roger Hill 1990’s & Peter Brady 1990’s in Australia (catamarans).

The qualities of the “passagemaker” were defined by Beebe as 2,400nm range at 7.5kn, self-sufficient for at least two weeks.

Brady opines that 2,000nm at displacement speed is a “reasonable bench mark”, with 55-65′ boats making 8kn at “displacement speed”.

This “displacement speed” indication is perhaps a better metric and allows calculation of the standard “ hull speed ” calculation of 1.34 x sqrt(LWL), with a “displacement speed” changing the multiplier from 1.34x to 1x or 1.1x (so a 49′ boat would average 7-7.7kn, a 64′ boat would average 8-8.8kn).

It is worth saying now that many trimarans and catamarans are acknowledged as NOT being limited by this theoretical hull speed as the formula is based on the hydrodynamic (wavemaking) properties, but hulls that are very narrow for their length (some say 8:1 or more on LWL:BWL) may instead be more limited by the interaction properties of the waves off each hull. There is not

So as a working definition, a passage maker or long range cruiser can be classified as being able to go at least 2,000nm on standard tanks at a speed of 6-8kn (depending on length, but 36-64′ covers most cruising size boats).

I have collected fuel consumption, displacement and size for quite a collection of power catamarans that I consider cruising boats. By this I mean they have considerable range and autonomy, have a displacement or semi-displacement hull shape, and can sleep at least two couples. This precludes the larger and smaller fast fishing boats (hull shape; range), patrol boats (comfort; sleeping), and all the smaller aluminium cats.

Based on the data I have collected, for production boats, these are long range passage makers:

• Sunreef 70 – range 3200
• Africat 420 – range 2800
• Fountaine Pajot 46 Cumberland – range 2100

and for non-production boats, these are those I can find enough data to support as long range:

• Tennant 66 Domino – range 7000nm+
• Tennant 60 Catbyrd – range 6000nm+
• Tennant 54 PH8 – range 3000nm
• Tennant 44 St John – range 2000nm
• Roger Hill 66 Tenacity – range 2500nm
• Roger Hill 66 Lola – range 3200nm
• Brady 17.5 Passagemaker – range 3200nm

By definition, these power catamarans (a mix of one-off and production boats) are not long-range:

• Fountaine Pajot 37 Maryland (with 75hp engines, not 150hp) – range 1500
• PDQ 41 – range 1500
• Pachoud 49 Solitaire – range 1250
• Fountaine Pajot 37 MY – range 1200
• Lagoon 43 – range 1200
• Horizon 52 – range 1150
• Fountaine Pajot 35 Highland – range 1100
• Fountaine Pajot 44 MY44 – range 1100
• Ligure 50 – range 1100
• Aquilla 48 – range 1050
• Fountaine Pajot 40 Summerland – range 1000
• Fountaine Pajot 44 Cumberland – range 1000
• Leopard 51 – range 1000
• Leopard 43 – range 1000

and those with less than 1000nm range at the requisite speed:

• Aquilla 45 – range 950
• Leopard 37 – range 900
• Fountaine Pajot 34 Greenland – range 900
• Aspen 120 – range 750
• PDQ 34 – range 680

Going non-production, you are generally into one-off builds. Even though the big-name designers may have sold multiple hulls of the same initial design, these are often modified over the build so that they may only partly resemble each other once finished.

Lastly, the technical list of non-long range power catamarans ignores the fact that all of those referenced have an excellent range of at least 900nm. There are few times in a passage maker’s travels where more range is needed – the Pacific (Panama-Marquesas) and Atlantic (Bermuda-Azores, Cape Verde-Barbados, Cape Town-St Helena) are such, but these are an extremely small part of the time on water a passage maker spends compared to being close to land and places where diesel – quality or not – is available.

As a final warning, almost all of the above it theoretical waffle. It doesn’t take into account some vital points of decision: is the boat designed and built to handle the conditions of a long passage? Are the people aboard capable and ready for such voyages?

If you know of other long range power catamarans and can provide at least three data points of speed-consumption, please let me know and I can add them.

Other interesting articles about power catamarans are:

• Shuttleworth on his Adastra
• Some of Malcolm Tennant’s ideas
• Alex Simonis on the Leopard 43 and why Power Catamarans Don’t like to go Uphill
• Noah Thompson on hull fuel efficiency

and for some first hand information, Domino and SnoDog are fantastic.

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Published by robout

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3 thoughts on “Long range power catamarans”

I didn’t know this about power cats. So few go long range! How interesting.

[…] the range you can travel a lot (no ocean crossings and possibly no multi-day trips). We want to go long range cruising […]

Thanks for the sensible critique. Me and my neighbor were just preparing to do some research on this. We got a grab a book from our area library but I think I learned more from this post. I’m very glad to see such great info being shared freely out there.

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Frequently Asked Questions

Can we bring our own food and drinks.

The private catamaran cruise typically includes an open bar, but passengers are generally allowed to bring their own food and non-alcoholic drinks. It’s best to check with the tour operator for any specific policies.

What Is the Maximum Capacity for the Catamaran?

The catamaran has a maximum capacity of 30 participants. This private cruise allows guests to customize their experience on the 40-ft vessel and enjoy the open bar, snorkeling, and other activities in the Caribbean Sea.

Is It Possible to Extend the Duration of the Cruise?

Yes, it is possible to extend the duration of the cruise. Customers can inquire with the tour operator about options for extending the 4-hour standard duration, which may incur additional charges. The tour’s flexibility allows for customization to meet individual needs.

Are There Any Additional Charges for Customizing the Cruise?

According to the information provided, there do not appear to be any additional charges for customizing the private catamaran cruise. The price of £919.77 per group covers the ability to customize the cruise’s itinerary.

Can We Request Specific Music or Entertainment During the Cruise?

Yes, guests can request specific music or entertainment during the private catamaran cruise. The crew is happy to accommodate such requests to enhance the overall experience and make the cruise more personalized to the group’s preferences.

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The Cancun private catamaran cruise offers an unmatched opportunity to explore the stunning Caribbean Sea in a personalized and luxurious setting.

With an open bar , knowledgeable crew, and customizable itinerary, this four-hour adventure is perfect for celebrating special occasions or simply enjoying the breathtaking coastal views.

Whether you choose to snorkel, relax on the beach, or visit nearby islands, this cruise provides an unforgettable experience that captures the beauty and essence of Cancun.

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