venture 23 sailboat

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Sailing Performance of the Venture Newport 23

• Thread starter Lost Horizon
• Start date Mar 3, 2011
• Macgregor Owner Forums
• Ask A Macgregor Owner

Lost Horizon

Actually- I'm not sure if this has been posted here yet. I had spoken to Mike Inmon a couple years ago, and he had mentioned wanting to sell his modified D to get the Newport 23. I saw a post saying he found a good one. What I want to know is: How does it sail compared to your D? Anyone else with experience feel free to chime in. Thanks!  

jhnewsome17

I purchased a Venture Newport 23 when the first model was made back in 73. I was looking for a trailerable boat to use on a fresh water lake. The boat was drop dead gorgeous at the time with red hull, & colored jibs. I remember that it had the pop-top cabin roof, which helped a lot. Frankly I wasn't trilled with the quality of the rigging. It was like most Ventures - cheap. As far as sailing characteristics the boat was very tender in moderate winds and almost unsailable in strong winds. It had a terrible weather helm requiring the rudder to be positioned so far to the opposite position that it created terrible drag and slowed the boat. Venture also used oak instead of teak for the bowsprit and the railing around the cockpit. You cannot keep varnish on oak in an outside environment. Once again this was Venture's cheap way of building a boat. I was so disappointed in the Newport that I only kept it a couple years and sold it. If you're looking for a nice day-sailor and can pick one up for a good price it's still a good looking boat. But, I'd look for something with a better reputation and better built.  

Here's an interesting web site for the Newport 23. Lots of information and some pictures. As much as I disliked my Newport 23, I still have a warm spot for the boat because it was so good looking. If Venture had just included a little more quality in the construction and rigging they would have hit a home-run with this boat. http://trusting-1.com/  

Interesting post. I once saw an article on the Newport 23 with a picture of the boat under sail in what appeared to be fairly calm conditions. I couldn't understand why the boat was heeling so much with the helm hard over.  

ChockFullOnuts222

"As far as sailing characteristics the boat was very tender in moderate winds and almost unsailable in strong winds. It had a terrible weather helm requiring the rudder to be positioned so far to the opposite position that it created terrible drag and slowed the boat." Sounds like excessive mast rake to me. As far as I know no mac has been demasted because of light rigging, I guess if you were to carry way to much sail for the conditions the rig might be to light.  

In the factory brochure pictures, the mast appears to have a pretty substantial rake by design  

More mast rake = more weather helm. or maybe just the way the sails were trimed or maybe the keel was not in the proper position I have not heard or read of that problem. To have to steer the boat hard over just to keep it from rounding up means a boat way out of trim.  

"Weather Helm" is an interesting phenomena on a sailboat. I cannot disagree with anything posted. Reducing the rake, or angling the top of the mast more forward, has to reduce weather helm. Proper trimming in stronger wind such as spilling air from the main will also reduce weather helm. But, I believe there are factors other than rake of the mast or trim. Boat design or improper boat design can cause an excessive weather helm and there's little that can be done to completely reduce it. Shape (or lack of shape) and location of the keel are also important factors. I currently own a Seafarer 29' with a swing keel. Of all the boats I've owned this S29 has the most balanced helm I've experienced. I've sailed it with main alone, and with a 150% genoa alone, and there is little difference in respect to the helm. Contrary to this example, there is a Cal 34' on my dock and the owner is complaining of a terrible weather helm. His mast doesn't appear to be raked too much, but we have discussed adjusting it too see if it will make a difference. It would help if he had a backstay adjuster. So far the only thing that has noticeably helped if he spills air from his main until the helm is balanced. Unfortunately, this is probably costing him some SOG. Here's a quote from a post on Wikipedia about weather helm, " the root cause of the phenomenon is the relationship between the center of the force exerted by the sail plan, and the center of the resistance to that force by the hull, and not the angle of heel of the hull." We assume that all boats and designed and tested by competent naval architects, but in Venture/Macgregor's situation back in the 70s who knows? What if cabin comfort is slightly sacrificed by locating the swing keel a few inches forward of it's best position for balance? Here's links to a few good discussions and posts on this subject. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_helm http://www.endeavourowners.com/dscsn/handling/wthrhlm.html A comment on this post supports my position that a serious weather helm is most likely a result of the boat's design. Post from May 12, 1999, " I spoke with Rob at the Endeavour factory (he was there when they still built production boats) and he said even if you take all the rake out of the mast you can not tune out weatherhelm. He said people have had great success putting on a bowsprit and moving the headsail forward a couple of feet." This is a great article on SailNet about "balance" in general. http://www.sailnet.com/forums/seamanship-articles/19146-balance-hull-sails.html  

from your source Mitigation Any action that reduces the angle of heel of a boat that is reaching or beating to windward will help reduce excessing weather helm. Racing sailors routinely try to use bodyweight or other moveable ballast to bring the boat to a more upright position. Reducing or reefing the total sail area will have the same effect and, counter-intuitively, many boats will sail faster with less sail in a stiff breeze once heel and weather helm have been reduced, due to the reduction in underwater drag (see Over-canvassed sailing ). Easing the sheets on aft-most sails, such as the mainsail in a sloop or cutter can have an immediate effect, especially to help with manoeuvering. Moving or increasing sail area forward can also help, for example by raising the jib (and maybe lowering the staysail ) on a cutter. Sailing off the wind, weather helm may be caused by the imbalance due to fore-and-aft sails all being sheeted out on the same (leeward) side of the boat. Raising a spinnaker or poling out a headsail to windward with a whisker pole can help. Yachts making ocean trade wind crossings have rigged 'twins' - double headsails poled out to opposite sides from the same forestay for extended downwind passages without a mainsail. [2] Square rigged sails also provide relatively symmetric drive off the wind. This seems better than a boat design error that no one seems to know anything about.  

My O-Day 22(1980) had pronounced weather helm when heeled. It took two hands on the tiller to keep the boat on course. Adjusting the centerboard did help, but when I installed a new rudder from IdaSailor it was a major change. Now the helm is very light with only slight weather helm regardless of the angle of heel. No other change to the mast or rigging was made. I had the same experience with my O'Day Mariner when I replaced the rudder.  

When I bought my V-23, I had extreme weather helm. I thought the boat was the worst sailing boat that I had ever owned... but beautiful. I wrote to MacGregor and discovered that I had the keel in the wrong position. It should not hang straight down but should be angled back toward the stern. MacGregor gave me correct angle... there is a bolt hole in the hull and the keel (in my boat) that when a bolt is inserted holds the keel in the right position. That reposition solved the weather helm problem completely. Also, I do not use the small head sail (Yankee Jib) unless the wind is very light... the boat does not handle well other wise. Another big improvement in handling that I made was replacing the rudder with an IdaSailor rudder. The boat is a bit tippy in heavy wind but I have two solutions for that: a heavy crew or back-winding the main with the jib.  

"The boat is a bit tippy in heavy wind but I have two solutions for that: a heavy crew or back-winding the main with the jib." What does that mean? I thought back-winding like a jib during tacking was where you hold the sail on the windward side of the boat. ( I do it on my Hobie cat to help blow the bow through tacks) I don't understand how holding the main to the windward side of the boat could help with anything, much less reduce heeling. Jim  

You backwind the main when you cause the air flow from the jib to actually push a dent in the main's airfoil instead of flowing over it and producing lift.  

Weather Helm & Back-Winding Ntnrobin, thanks for confirming that I wasn't the only V-23 owner with severe weather helm. I completely agree with your analogy, "unless the wind is very light... the boat does not handle well other wise." Granted, it's been a long time since I owned the Newport, but I had the same opinion of the boat as you, beautiful but not so good a sailing boat. I do remember the keel alignment bolt. I sailed my Newport in a large man-made fresh water lake. The only deep parts of the lake are the runs of the old rivers. Otherwise the lake is relatively shallow. If I ran aground with the keel bolt inserted it was almost impossible to remove. If I sailed with tension on the keel cable it sung like an out of tune violin, so I generally sailed with the keel all the way down. Your explanation from Venture HQ about the keel angle causing weather helm matches other information I've read about potential causes of weather helm. Your terminology about back-winding the main is new to me but makes sense. With a weather helm you need to shift power or force ahead of the mast and reduce it to the rear of the mast. Seems like the easiest way to do this is just to set the main sheet traveler to the lee side or to spill air by letting out the main sheet. How do you set the head sail to back-wind the main?  

The Venture of Newport was a copy of a Pilot Boat from the late 1800's. Roger Macgreor stayed true to the design as much as possible with the exception of the swing keel. These boat were made to get out to incoming vessels quickly because whoever boarded first got the pilot fee into the harbor. Cute boat but very tender and not very roomy. Fair Winds and full Sails...  

onyx_ranger

My Venture Newport Has a very neutral helm with full main and both jibs flying. I've never had the lock down bolt in the keel, I let the keel rest on this bolt. It does have too much weather helm on full main and staysail without the forward jib. I run everything up to 12 knots, put in the 1st reef point in the main at around 15. At 20 I then drop the forward jib. If the wind continues to 25 I luff the main a bit. The helm stays very neutral, the boat stiffens up quite a bit as it heels. The bowsprit and cockpit railings are mahogany from the factory on my boat. The mast does have a substantial rake to it, around 32 inches.  

Freedom77 said: The Venture of Newport was a copy of a Pilot Boat from the late 1800's. ... Click to expand

onyx_ranger said: My Venture Newport Has a very neutral helm with full main and both jibs flying. I've never had the lock down bolt in the keel, I let the keel rest on this bolt. It does have too much weather helm on full main and staysail without the forward jib. I run everything up to 12 knots, put in the 1st reef point in the main at around 15. At 20 I then drop the forward jib. If the wind continues to 25 I luff the main a bit. The helm stays very neutral, the boat stiffens up quite a bit as it heels. The bowsprit and cockpit railings are mahogany from the factory on my boat. The mast does have a substantial rake to it, around 32 inches. Click to expand

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VENTURE OF NEWPORT 23 Detailed Review

If you are a boat enthusiast looking to get more information on specs, built, make, etc. of different boats, then here is a complete review of VENTURE OF NEWPORT 23. Built by Macgregor Yacht Corp and designed by Roger MacGregor, the boat was first built in 1973. It has a hull type of Swing Keel and LOA is 6.88. Its sail area/displacement ratio 19.70. Its auxiliary power tank, manufactured by undefined, runs on undefined.

VENTURE OF NEWPORT 23 has retained its value as a result of superior building, a solid reputation, and a devoted owner base. Read on to find out more about VENTURE OF NEWPORT 23 and decide if it is a fit for your boating needs.

Boat Information

Boat specifications, sail boat calculation, rig and sail specs, contributions, who designed the venture of newport 23.

VENTURE OF NEWPORT 23 was designed by Roger MacGregor.

Who builds VENTURE OF NEWPORT 23?

VENTURE OF NEWPORT 23 is built by Macgregor Yacht Corp.

When was VENTURE OF NEWPORT 23 first built?

VENTURE OF NEWPORT 23 was first built in 1973.

How long is VENTURE OF NEWPORT 23?

VENTURE OF NEWPORT 23 is 5.94 m in length.

What is mast height on VENTURE OF NEWPORT 23?

VENTURE OF NEWPORT 23 has a mast height of 7.77 m.

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• Sailboat Guide

1978 MacGregor Venture of Newport 23

• Description

Seller's Description

“Cutter” Rig. This is a modern version of the ‘pilot cutter’ in the 1800’s, fast boats for port pilots who sailed out to big ships and took priority passengers and mail quickly to shore. “Ship-like” appearance. CORONA VIRUS ESCAPE BOAT. LIVE AWAY FROM SHORE WEEKS AT A TIME. SAFEST DISTANCING. A Cutter is the same as a Sloop except a cutter has 2 smaller ‘jib’ sails instead of the sloop’s one big jib sail in the bow. The cutter’s smaller sails are lighter and easier to physically handle, raise, lower, and bag, than 1 big sail and the two smaller sails are easier to control in strong winds.) Sails all very good condition, multi-color. Jib 1 (‘Yankee’) blue and white Jib 2 (‘Staysail’) yellow Mainsail Yellow/White Sails and sheets: all very good condition. Main sail, 2 fore sails (the 2 smaller ‘jib’ sails called ‘yankee’ and ‘staysail’) and all sheets, All halyards included,halyards in adequate fair condition. Anchor danforth type with 5 feet of chain. Keel, retractable anytime, raise or lower easily in half a minute, 18 inches up, 5.5 feet down. Hull and deck fiberglass (deck solid, not cored) Hull yellow original factory gelcoat, never needs paint. Navigation lights and masthead anchoring light VHF antenna at top of mast LOA Length Over All, 22.6 feet hull, and 26 feet with bowsprit. Beam 7.2 feet Displacement 2000 pounds Sail Area Total 256 square feet Swing Keel. Draft up 18 inches. Draft fully down 5.5 feet. Raise and lower to any depth desired with winch at cockpit hatch. 600 pounds, iron.

Detailed factory specifications at SailboatData website.

Equipment: Hull reinforced 2019 with all stainless steel fittings & bolts Rudder custom made new 2019, super strong, and varnished wood tiller Mast-raising device, new. Stainless steel mounting bracket for outboard engine (engine not included) ——————— EXTRA GEAR INCLUDED Trailer Mast-raising device, new. Anchor and chain. 2 PFD’s Fuel tank included, marine 6 gallons with connector. Cushions, all custom made to fit bunks and seats below. If you are going to sail in freshwater the bottom is fine. If you are going to have her in saltwater for extended period then I recommend new bottom paint.

Rig and Sails

Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.

The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.

Classic hull speed formula:

Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL

Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL

Sail Area / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.

SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3

• SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
• D : Displacement in pounds.

Ballast / Displacement Ratio

A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.

Ballast / Displacement * 100

Displacement / Length Ratio

A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.

D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
• LWL: Waterline length in feet

Comfort Ratio

This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.

Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )

• D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
• LOA: Length overall in feet
• Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet

Capsize Screening Formula

This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.

CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)

Thanks to VENTURE OF NEWPORT owner Bill C. for offering corrections.

This listing is presented by SailboatListings.com . Visit their website for more information or to contact the seller.

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1976 Venture Newport 23

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Venture Newport 23

This site is dedicated to perhaps one of the most unique trailerable sailboats ever built. The Venture Newport 23 is a swing-keel cutter made by MacGregor from 1973 to 1984. With its raked mast, signature taffrail, bowsprit and classic lines, this versatile and practical boat evokes the nostalgia of sailing vessels from a century ago. Yet with a sturdy fiberglass hull and fully retractible iron swing keel this vessel is easy to maintain and at home on a trailer, beached in a quiet cove, or plying the inland and coastal waterways.

This site is intended to be a resource for the ‘classic plastic’ enthusiasts to share restoration tips and accomplishments, modifications, maintenance and repair tips and to collectively gather, preserve and promote information about this fantastc little boat.

Your VN23 photos, stories, videos, tips, and restoration documentaries are greatly appreciated.

Send your submissions to [email protected]

Other VN23 Sites

Discussion Group

Clif’s Geocities Site

Reviews on Sailnet

Trailer Sailor

Welcome to the Venture Newport 23 Harbor

Venture of newport 23

The venture of newport 23 is a 22.58ft cutter designed by roger macgregor and built in fiberglass by macgregor yacht corp between 1973 and 1984..

The Venture of newport 23 is a light sailboat which is a good performer. It is reasonably stable / stiff and has a low righting capability if capsized. It is best suited as a day-boat.

Venture of newport 23 for sale elsewhere on the web:

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23′ Venture

Fishermen will love the way the boat tracks at trolling speeds, allowing the focus to remain on the fishing.

Although very similar to the classic C-Dory design, this new model features a deeper V, a little more deadrise and reverse chines to provide very smooth cruising in the open water. Maneuverability at speed is balanced and predictable, even in heavy seas. The boat holds her course with little effort. The hull’s flatness toward the stern with reverse chines greatly reduces the rolling motions, making cruising in rough water much more pleasant. And with only 8” draft and a thick bottom, she can easily be beached on sand for beach combing adventures.

Fuel Capacity

• Economic and robust
• Well known and trusted C-Dory Design
• Navigable is a variety of waters
• Economically designed for memorable trips
• Built for comfort

Engineering

• Flat bottomed hull convenient for traveling into a variety of ports, harbors, or beaches
• Built for comfort of drivers and riders
• Ample cockpit space for comfortable fishing
• Designed and engineered to handle up to a single 150 HP outboard engine
• Designed to cruise comfortably at moderate speed

Specifications

General specifications.

• LOA  22’9″
• Beam  8′
• Headroom  6’4″
• Weight  3020 lbs
• Cockpit  5’1″ long x 6’1″ wide
• Fuel Capacity  60 gals
• Power Outboard  up to 150 HP
• Height on Trailer  9′
• Draft (with fuel, less gear)  12″
• Material  Composite core & fiberglass

Hull, deck and cockpit

• Standard five year hull warranty
• Average towing weight is 4945 lbs. (boat, motor, trailer and fuel)

Comfort and interior

• Cockpit comfortably fits up to 4 people
• Cabin comfortably fits up to 4 people
• Cabin is fully lined with marine hull liner
• Cabin includes sleeping area and pilots station
• Cabin includes dinette located along the port side of cabin that converts into 6’4” berth

Additional Feature

• Color Accents
• Electrical System
• Fuel tank (Portable)
• Hand Rails Exterior
• Navigation Lights
• Transom Cap
• Upholstery (Sunbrella)
• Sliding Windows

Instrumentation and Safety Equipment

• Fuel Capacity 60 Gallons
• Automatic/Manual Bilge Pumps
• Certification/Standard Compliance ABYC, USCG, CE

Color Selection

• Colored Gunnel Stripe and Boot stripe color options — Blue, Cabernet, Forest Green, Black
• Custom colors optional
• Fabric packages to match gel-coat colors

Specifications as well as standard and optional equipment are subject to change without notice. All measurements approximate. For more information and pricing, please contact your local  C-Dory dealer .

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