reflex 38 yacht

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Reflex 38 Any Opinions please

• Thread starter savageseadog
• Start date 30 Nov 2009
• 30 Nov 2009

savageseadog

Well-known member.

Anyone know anything about the Reflex 38 racing yacht please?  

savageseadog said: Anyone know anything about the Reflex 38 racing yacht please? Click to expand...

Active member

I've raced against them and chatted with people who have raced on them. Quick on most points of sail but struggle to live up to their handicap in a decent chop. I am told that accomodation is apparently not very good with not enough berths for the number of crew required to race the thing and those are not in the right areas for weight distribution for the off watch crew either.  

Reflex 38 I meant is built by Harley Race Boats and designer: Christian Stimson I was after the following: 1) Sailing quality in various wind conditions and directions? 2) Handicap on IRC ok or not? 3) Build quality, durability? 4) Comparisons with Prima 38? Anything else?  

savageseadog said: Reflex 38 I meant is built by Harley Race Boats and designer: Christian Stimson I was after the following: 1) Sailing quality in various wind conditions and directions? 2) Handicap on IRC ok or not? 3) Build quality, durability? 4) Comparisons with Prima 38? Anything else? Click to expand...

savageseadog said: 1) Sailing quality in various wind conditions and directions? Click to expand...

savageseadog said: 2) Handicap on IRC ok or not? Click to expand...

savageseadog said: 3) Build quality, durability? Click to expand...

savageseadog said: 4) Comparisons with Prima 38? Click to expand...

Judders said: I am told that accomodation is apparently not very good with not enough berths for the number of crew required to race the thing and those are not in the right areas for weight distribution for the off watch crew either. Click to expand...

islandsailor

I own a Pronavia 38 - the cruising version of the Reflex 38, speak to www.sailinglogic.co.uk - RORC Yacht of the year this year and RORC school boat of the year for the last 5 years I believe. I cruise in my Pronavia 38 and its also raced, very fast cruising and it brings home the results on the race course - no complaints.  

tomframe said: I own a Pronavia 38 - the cruising version of the Reflex 38, speak to www.sailinglogic.co.uk - RORC Yacht of the year this year and RORC school boat of the year for the last 5 years I believe. I cruise in my Pronavia 38 and its also raced, very fast cruising and it brings home the results on the race course - no complaints. Click to expand...

sailed the prototype pronovia about 3yrs ago - didn't perform well against the reflex - heavier v poor quality fit out inside (looked v nice though), hatches leaked, tack on No 1 pulled out etc etc. we were disappointed - hope the production boats got better. again - repeating advice above - go and talk to the folks at sailing logic  

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Pronavia 38 Review

The Reflex 38 got a full makeover as a cruiser-racer – step forward the Pronavia 38. Rupert Holmes reports.

Many boats claim to be performance cruisers, but few make the grade. However, it’s instantly obvious that this design is different — it’s a true performance yacht, retaining the well-proven speed and stability characteristics of its predecessor, but with a completely redesigned and fully fitted lightweight interior. The new boat is available in two versions: a standard cruiserracer (as tested), or a high-performance model with a lighter foam laminate interior, plus carbon rig and rudderstock.

The Reflex 38 started life as a brief from Sir Robin Knox-Johnston’s Clipper Ventures company. He wanted a fleet of strong racing yachts, with ocean crossing capability, to train crews for roundthe- world voyages. The boat has proved to be one of the most successful designs of its size on the racecourse, both round the cans and offshore. For instance, Sailing Logic’s ‘Puma Logic’ was overall class winner in the IRC 1 RORC Series Championship in 2005, and finished third in class in that year’s Rolex Fastnet Race. In 2006 the same boat finished the selection trials for the Commodores’ Cup in second place, although controversially was not picked for the team.

Part of the original design brief of the Reflex was for high ultimate stability — the design has an AVS of 144 degrees. With the additional displacement of the Pronavia cruising version this is reduced by around five degrees, but is nonetheless still a very respectable figure. The 2.3m draught keel is an iron/lead composite structure, with a large bulb at the base giving a low centre of gravity. Add to that a ballast ratio of near 45 per cent for the raceboat (41 per cent for the cruiser) and you have a very stiff vessel with excellent sail carrying ability. A shoal-draught option of 1.75m is also offered.

The design excels in offshore events — as well successes in the Fastnet, the Reflex 38 has won its division crossing the Atlantic in the ARC and topped the field in the grueling Three Peaks Race four times running.

‘The new boat fulfills the potential the design always had,’ says designer Christian Stimson, ‘It has the benefit of a spacious and comfortable interior, without sacrificing performance.’ In part, this has been possible because the Reflex has a heavy low-tech 12mm plywood interior, so the redesigned interior is of similar weight, despite the huge improvement in comfort and sophistication. However, the extra equipment of the more cruising-oriented design, from a windlass to pressurised water systems, inevitably pushes the weight up. The IRC rating of the Pronavia comes out around 1.055, compared to the typical figure for a Reflex of around 1.067-1.069.

Rickard Eskilsson and Anders Ekstrand, who bought the Swedish boatyard six years ago, developed the Pronavia idea. Their search for a more up to date design led them to Christian Stimson’s Reflex 38; and they bought the moulds from Cowes-based builder Nigel Harley and commissioned stylist Roel de Groot to design the interior.

One of the key attributes of the Reflex 38 that has not changed is its structural strength. The laminate was engineered by SP Technologies to provide a balance between robust charter boat and performance racer, including a requirement to absorb the very considerable forces of running aground at 10 knots. The engineers’ calculations were proved accurate when a Reflex ran aground at speed on the wreck of the ‘Varvassi’ off The Needles — a hulk that claims raceboats almost every year. The impact left a large cauliflowershaped dent in the front of the foil, but incredibly there was no damage to the laminate structure or keel bolts.

Our test boat, ‘Seawolf’, was owned by Dave Latham of Atlantic Charters. The boat was based in the Solent area during summer 2006, before moving to Gibraltar for the winter season. Dave chose the Pronavia following a year’s experience of owning a Reflex 38. He was also drawn by the Swedish yard’s flexibility in incorporating his own requests into the build, yet the cost worked out around 20 per cent cheaper for a comparable specification. ‘Seawolf’ is fitted with almost all the available optional cruising comforts such as boarding ladder, cockpit shower and spray hood.

Externally, the main differences between the Reflex and Pronavia are in the cockpit area, where the seats extend further aft and the coamings are more rounded. Additionally the Reflex’s big wheel is eschewed in favour of twin wheels and the entire area is decked in teak. The steering positions from each side are nothing short of excellent, and there’s no evidence that the smaller wheels result in high steering loads feeding through to the helm.

Deck gear is by Lewmar and Spinlock, with an upgrade to Harken available as an option. A German mainsheet system is led to winches just forward of each wheel, where they can be reached from the helm if short-handed, or by a dedicated mainsheet trimmer. Under-deck halyards help to create a neat and uncluttered layout, boosted by flush-fitting hatches. The coach roof does not unduly hinder deck work and the conventional alloy toe rail is cut flat aft of the shrouds for comfortable hiking — overall it’s a better proposition for round the cans racing than that of many popular cruiser-racers. There’s a liferaft locker under the sole at the aft end of the cockpit, with space for a few fenders etc, but otherwise locker space is restricted on three-cabin boats. Two cabin models, however, have a large cockpit locker aft of the heads compartment.

The keel-stepped double-spreader 9/10ths fractional rig is alloy on cruiser-racer versions and carbon on the all-out racer. ‘Seawolf’ is equipped with cruising laminate sails, by Royal Sails of Sweden. Many Reflexes gain a small rating advantage by sailing with a maximum 130 per cent genoa, although Stimson recommends a 140 per cent headsail for the Pronavia: ‘It’s needed because of the extra weight — about threequarters of a tonne — of the cruising gear compared to a stripped out boat.’

On the water

Our test took place on the Solent, in 12-15 knots of breeze, with frequent gusts to 20 knots. Upwind the helm has a delightful positive feel and the boat falls easily into a deep groove, even without crew on the rail. There’s every indication that the boat will fulfill the polars, which show roughly seven knots of boatspeed and tacking through 70 degrees in these conditions.

Bearing off and hoisting the spinnaker the boat again showed a good turn of speed, and excellent control. When spinnaker reaching the boat remained under complete control with no sign of broaching, even in the gusts. At all times she readily responded to the helm to bear away, with the rudder retaining a good grip on the water throughout.

Two basic layouts are offered, with a choice of two or three cabins, and a degree of customisation is possible. There’s intelligent stowage space throughout the boat — it’s plentiful and wellplanned — and the general feel is light and airy. Granted, there are more spacious 38-footers, but none will match the performance and handling of this boat. The finish throughout is also worthy of mention — the mahogany joinery is executed to a high standard and a careful effort has been made to avoid any exposed fibreglass.

Right forward in two of the versions is a large owner’s cabin, with a 2.14m double berth. The spacious saloon and chart table areas, to port of the main cabin, are identical in all versions, as is the port side aft guest cabin.

A two-cabin layout has a generously-sized heads compartment aft to starboard, with a truly excellent galley stretching along the whole starboard side of the main cabin. This has an abundance of worktop space, as well as huge, but well-organised, stowage capacity. Some linear galleys are a nightmare to work at sea on the ‘wrong’ tack, but the custom centre-line saloon bench that Dave specified for ‘Seawolf’ offers something to brace against and makes the galley totally usable at sea.

The standard three-cabin layout has a second, smaller, aft cabin to starboard, and a smaller heads compartment immediately ahead of this. ‘Seawolf’ has a slightly different arrangement, with the heads compartment forward of the mast at the expense of a smaller forecabin. This has the  advantage of allowing a little more space in the  starboard aft cabin, as well as maintaining a similarly-sized galley to that of the two-cabin boat.

Pronavia 38 Review: Verdict

With 10 boats sold already, the Pronavia concept is  proving undeniably popular — with the marriage of  the Reflex 38’s race-winning heritage and the new  interior arrangements, this is a genuine dual-role  performance design with the potential to win races  both round the cans and offshore. Combining  cruising comforts with the ability to plane in wind  speeds over 20 knots is certainly appealing.

When sailed short-handed the boat’s high  stability and sail-carrying ability will prove a real  asset — a brisk, but relaxed, pace can be  maintained with few sail changes.

Initially the boat has been deliberately undervalued to get attention and represents  excellent value for money. Pricing will increase  year on year so residual values are not a worry  for buyers.

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Fin w/bulb & spade rudder

Specifications REFLEX 38

1999 - 37.99 ft / 11.58 m - Christian Stimson - Harley Raceboats (UK)

REFLEX 38 Sailboat Data

Hull Type: Fin w/bulb & spade rudder Rigging Type: Fractional Sloop LOA: 37.99 ft / 11.58 m LWL: 34.12 ft / 10.40 m S.A. (reported): 930.54 ft² / 86.45 m² Beam: 12.80 ft / 3.90 m Displacement: 13,962.00 lb / 6,333 kg Ballast: 6,283.00 lb / 2,850 kg Max Draft: 7.55 ft / 2.30 m Construction: FG Ballast Type: Lead First Built: 1999 Builder: Harley Raceboats (UK) Designer: Christian Stimson

Information from  sailboatdata.com .

Type Engine: Diesel; Saildrive HP: 38 Hull Speed: 7.83 kn

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Reflex 38 for sale in Eastbourne United Kingdom

Eastbourne United Kingdom

Make & Model

MEASUREMENTS

Description.

Designed by Christian Stimson, built by Harley Race Boats of Cowes this Reflex 38 has been well maintained and updated and benefits from a good inventory of racing sails.

She has been Sussex based and under the same ownership for the last 16 years, used for local round the cans club racing, fully-crewed and double-handed RORC offshore racing and summer time cruising.

Set-up for both fully-crewed and short/double-handed sailing with both symmetrical/asymmetrical spinnakers/poles, Facnor flat-deck headsail and Selden code-zero furlers, mainsail lazy jacks and cockpit-mounted plotter.

Accommodation

Double berth in fore cabin Port & starboard midships berths with pipe cots above in saloon Port & starboard quarter berths with pipe cots above Ten berths in total Port side aft saloon, Stainless sink with cold freshwater & saltwater taps, Thetford twin burner & grill gas cooker Separate heads compartment with Jabsco sea toilet, stainless sink with cold tap 4kw diesel heater

Construction

White GRP hull, grey deck and superstructure Deep iron fin keel with lead shoe, Blade rudder

Deck hardware: 2 * Harken 46, 2 speed, self tailing sheet winches 2 * Harken 40, 2 speed spinnaker winches 2 * Harken 40, 2 speed, self tailing halyard winches 10 * Spinlock clutches Harken towable genoa cars All lines led aft to cockpit Running Rigging: Replaced 2015 All line Dyneema SK75 2 * Genoa Halyards (one doubles as spinnaker pole uphaul) 2 * Spinnaker halyards 2 * Main halyards (One is 2:1 purchase to allow hoisting from cockpit) Spinnakers sheets Genoa sheets Electric Anchor Windlass with remote control

Navigation Equipment

Navigation Electronics: Raymarine C80 Plotter (In Saloon Nav station) Raymarine Hybrid Touchscreen plotter (In cockpit) Advansea TR200 TX/RX AIS Raymarine True & apparent wind, depth, log Raymarine smart pilot with ST6001 controller & fluxgate compass 3 * auto pilot keypads in cockpit Raymarine wireless auto pilot controller on lanyard Secondary fluxgate compasses interfaced to ST40 Display 6 & ST6000 displays in cockpit 2 * NASA mast displays with remote controls 1 * ST6000 Multi display at nav station in saloon NASA Easy Navtext Silva bulkhead compass Plastimo hand held compass Weems & Plath Chronometer & barometer Electrical: 12v cabin lights throughout 12v red night lights in saloon & heads 40W Solar panel on coachroof 2 * 85ah Domestic batteries 1 * Engine battery Three way battery switches BEP Matrix DC Meter display CD/Radio/aux Player with Saloon & Cockpit speakers "All in one" 240v AC 20amp battery charger 240v shore power socket with galvanic isolater

Engine: Yanmar 40hp 3JH3E 2350 Hours (Last service 2302 Hours) Engine is freshwater cooled via heat exchanger with sea water input. Drive: Yanmar SD50 Sail Drive (New cones 1799 Hours, new shaft seals 2179 Hours) Propellor: Darglow two bladed 16in bronze folding prop Steering: Edson 60 in wheel Tankage Fuel: 60 litres + 20 litre portable tank Water: 1 * 70 litre Fiamma hard tank (port side) 1 * 100 litre Plastimo soft tank (stbd side)

Sails & Spars

Mast, boom and standing rigging: Replaced 2015 9/10 fractional rig, Rod rigging Dyneema backstay with backstay flicker & 24:1 purchase system Aluminium Z spars mast with twin swept back spreaders Aluminium Z spars boom & dipping spinnaker pole Aluminium Selden retractable bowsprit Twin groove foil on Facnor "Flat Deck" Furler Tidesmarine mast track system with matching aluminium cars on mainsail Mainsail Stackpack with lazy jacks & removable bonnet Kap-sails Headsail cover Racing Sails: Laminate sails by One sails No 1, lightweight 135%, good condition No 3, tafetta backed, as new condition Main, two reefs, good condition Code zero on Selden Furler, good condition A2 light spinnaker in yellow, good condition A3 reaching spinnaker in black, good condition Heavy Weather Sails, (headsails set on collapsible inner forestay) No 4 in Dacron, working condition RORC compliant Storm sail & Tri sail in dayglo orange

Safety Equipment

Safety Equipment: McMurdo SmartFind G5 EPIRB ICOM DSC VHF Emergency vhf antenna Manual fog horn 2 & Lifebuoys 1 * Danbuoy 1 * rescue harness Fire Blanket Carbon Monoxide monitor 1 * 12v Rule bilge pump with float switch 2 * manual Whale bilge pumps

Engine Count

Engine Hours

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

Hull Material

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• Racing Boats in United Kingdom
• Boats in United Kingdom

Panther Sail Racing

• Panther - Reflex 38

Panther is one of the original ten “big cats” built for Sir Robin Knox-Johnston’s Clipper Ventures Ltd.  specifically for offshore racing.  They were designed by Christian Stimson and built in Cowes by Harley Raceboats.  The yachts were sold by Clipper Ventures when they decided to concentrate on ocean racing and Panther was sold and passed into private ownership  although she was operated by Sailing Logic.  Only two were built after the initial phase before the mould was sold to Pronavia who then produced the Pronavia 38.

Why did we select Panther?

Andy has spent many years racing and skippering First 40.7’s, First 40’s, Prima 38’s, Elan 37’s and other production cruiser racers in inshore and offshore races.  We were looking for something similar and found very few on the market.  Most cruiser racer boats are lightly built and and do not age well. Additionally no mainstream manufacturer has made a cruiser/racer since the First 40, so choice was limited, unless we invested in the vacuum moulded market. 

Panther was spotted in Shamrock Quay Marina and had been stored ashore for ten years which had preserved the hull, however, everything else had suffered.  The idea of having a yacht which had been designed and built specifically for commercial racing appealed.  Panther is significantly stronger, lighter and faster than the comparable production yachts.  This combines with very good keel ballast / weight ratio which gives an excellent Angle of Vanishing Stability for the type of yacht.  Having been ashore for a number of years and not used we felt she needed to be restored to her former glory.

A deal with the owners was eventually struck and on the 28th July 2022 she arrived (by road) at Portland for restoration. 

Since the restoration we have tested her in the local Winter and Spring Series in Weymouth Bay before taking her on events.  In the recent Salesforce Regatta she got 2nd in IRC2 and second overall on the first day beating First 40's and 40.7's over the water.  We will continue to develop Panther further as we continue to race her.  

• Aim & Vision
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Sailing boat Reflex 38 2002

Engine Yanmar 3JH3E, with only 600 engine working hours and folding propeller! 2 cabins, sleeps 4!

• Length Overall: 11.58
• Length at Waterline: 7.55
• Max Draft: 2.3
• Displacement: 6333

Tanks Fuel: 120 Fresh Water: 160

Accommodation

• Cushion saloon Fibatrim Dodger red
• Head with toilet and shower
• 2 cabins with double beds
• Saloon with two linear settee
• Cooker Force 10
• Refrigerator Isotherm
• Sink double

Navigation equipment

• Navigation centre B&G
• Hydraulic Autopilot B&G
• VHF ICOM & emission DSC
• Navtex ICS T6 Navtec
• Chart plotter Radar Furuno
• Marine charts CMap UK to Med
• Alternator 80Ah
• Ondulator charger Mastervolt
• Circuit 12/220 V
• Flat screen TV
• Electric windlass Lewmar
• Teak in the cockpit
• Cockpit cushion Fibatrim
• 2x Electric winches Harken
• Deck fittings Harken
• Main anchor with 50m inox chain
• CRUISING Sails (2002) : UK Tape Drive Sails
• Full-battened mainsail 3 reefs
• Genoa n°1 Radio CD Sony & 2 HP interiors and 2 HP exteriors
• Asymetric spinnaker
• REGATTA sails (2005) :
• Full-battened mainsail 1 reff North 3DL
• Genoa n°1 North 3DL
• Genoa n°3 North 3DL
• Standard rigging Spencer Rigging
• Mast with spreaders Z-spars
• Boom Z-Spars
• Vang Z-Spars
• Running backstay
• Sheet traveller mast
• Max Prop feathering Propeller
• Steering wheel x 2
• Bimini top red
• Mainsail cover red
• Swim-ladder
• Tender outboard engine Yamaha 2HP
• 8 Fenders with socks
• Cradles for dry dock

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New and used Harley Race Boats Reflex 38 for sale

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